Public Safety Committee on Oct. 23rd, 2023

[Randall Koops]

We conclude that there is a risk, as it is drafted, that it confuses the role of the minister and of the Governor in Council. The text we have before us reads, “In making recommendations for appointments of members of the Commission, the Governor in Council must seek to reflect....” However, it is not the Governor in Council who makes the recommendations; it is the Governor in Council who makes the appointment and the minister who makes the recommendations.

It would seem that the inserted text about making recommendations is therefore superfluous. It could simply read, “In making appointments of members, the Governor in Council must seek to reflect”, as it's not the Governor in Council who makes the recommendation; that role is on the minister.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

You should have voted for my subamendment. I'm just saying. Like, seriously....

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Okay, Mr. Gaheer, you wanted to speak on a point of clarification.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

I'm open to changing the language of the subamendment to reflect what Mr. Koops said.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

You would have to withdraw the subamendment and then move another one, or else change it by unanimous consent.

Let's try for unanimous consent.

Could you clarify what changes you're proposing?

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

I seek unanimous consent of the committee to change the language of my subamendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Let's seek unanimous consent to withdraw your subamendment.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Okay, so we have unanimous consent to withdraw the subamendment. It is withdrawn.

Now you wish to move a different subamendment.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Yes. We'll circulate the language. We just need to replace “Governor in Council” with “Minister”.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Ah, that's a great idea. Wow, somebody should have thought of that.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

I wanted my name on the sheet of paper, Mr. Julian. That's why....

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Okay. Are we all clear on that subamendment?

Mr. Gaheer, could you clarify your subamendment, please?

[An. hon. member]

Read it again.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

The language would be, “In making recommendations for appointments of members of the Commission, the Minister must seek to reflect”, and then it just continues.

I can repeat that. “In making recommendations for appointments of members of the Commission, the Minister must seek....”

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

I have Mr. Julian followed by Mr. Motz, followed by Madame Michaud.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I think that is a brilliant amendment, Mr. Gaheer. I support it immensely.

I have a bit of déjà vu, Mr. Chair, but I'm glad that the Liberals are coming around. I support the amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you.

Mr. Motz.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

I support the amendment, but I'm curious to know what Mr. Koops has to say. The whole idea is that the Governor in Council selects the commission. The minister doesn't. The minister makes recommendations. Clause 3 is about the people who are on it being appointed by the Governor in Council.

Does this language, as amended in the subamendment, not muddy the waters on the establishment of this commission? I know it's clarification on how the diversity should look in the recommendations that are being proposed. However, if we remove the Governor in Council, it kind of takes away that the Governor in Council is supposed to make the decision based on what the minister recommends. That's what Mr. Gaheer is suggesting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Before you answer, I'm going to ask you to clarify the wording.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

I am very happy to do that, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

The language is this: “In making recommendations for appointments of members of the commission, the Minister must seek—”

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Go ahead, Mr. Koops.

[Randall Koops]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think the amendment clarifies the roles between the minister and the Governor in Council. Inserting new text establishes an obligation on an individual actor—that is, the minister—to make a recommendation that would then be considered for appointment by the Governor in Council in the clause before that. This recognizes the role of the minister, and that a minister can be answerable for that. It is also consistent with other legislation, including the RCMP Act and Bill C-40. I recognize that these are fairly new types of clauses. It's only in the last few years that Parliament has been adopting these.

There may be some benefit in consistency around the duties of a given minister.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you for that.

I apologize. I was under the impression, initially, that it was proposed that subclause 3(1) was going to have this language added to it. It's actually a new subclause under clause 3, which makes total sense.

Thank you. I appreciate that.