Evidence of meeting #85 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was transfer.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
Thank you.
I notice a common thread in questions from my Conservative colleagues. There seems to be, still, an impression that somehow the reclassification of Mr. Bernardo to medium security is somehow a mitigation of his sentence. Can you tell me if the pillows are softer in medium security?
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
Under the conditions of his imprisonment, he was not sentenced to maximum security. He was sentenced to serve a term of some number of years in a prison. He wasn't sentenced to medium versus maximum, so the change of classification is really only about managing the prisoner, managing the conditions of the prison and determining whether or not this person is a danger within the institution. They do not, in any way, increase his opportunity to be put on the street or to escape.
12:30 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
That's right. Security classification is very important. It's to manage the inmates where they should be managed.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
Okay. The day-to-day experience of Mr. Bernardo in medium security is, except for the increased access to programs, essentially the same as it would be under maximum security.
12:30 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Yes. He gets up. It's the same food. It's the same type of cell. It's the same bedding. Many of the same things that you would have in maximum security are there in medium security.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
He's not getting any kind of a free ride here. He's still enduring the full import of his sentence.
Is the benefit to society that it is perhaps less expensive to manage him in a medium-security environment?
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
Do you have any further comments on the nature of his experience? You indicated he is not likely to ever see minimum security.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Heath MacDonald
Thank you, Ms. Kelly.
We're moving into the fourth round now. Mr. Lloyd is up first, for five minutes.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Commissioner Kelly, thank you for coming here today.
Would you say the law was followed in the transfer of Paul Bernardo?
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
Would that law include the principle of “least restrictive measures”?
12:30 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
I want to say they were the least restrictive measures consistent with the protection of the public.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
Of course.
However, that is part of the law. Is this not true?
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
There has been a lot of debate about “least restrictive measures”, so I'm hoping you can provide this committee with some information.
I would like details about the total number of inmates who have been transferred from maximum security to minimum security from January 1, 2012 to the present day. I'm not asking for it now. If you could provide that, it would be great.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
Second, can you provide a justification for the transfer of each of those inmates? No personal information...but a general justification for the reasons for those transfers during that same time period.
12:35 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
We can tell you the type. We'll see what we can do.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
Okay.
Also, given this is a somewhat unprecedented transfer.... The only precedent we can find for a transfer of this magnitude is the Terri-Lynne McClintic transfer, which happened prior to Bill C-83 becoming law. Protecting all personal information—which is redacted—and given the precedent that you released the review into Paul Bernardo's transfer, will you commit to providing the review of Terri-Lynne McClintic's transfer information?
12:35 p.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
I am making a note of that as well.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
I'd like to get a commitment, barring any concerns about personal information, which you redacted in the Bernardo case. On the same precedent, can you commit to providing this committee with the review on Terri-Lynne McClintic?