Public Safety Committee on Dec. 9th, 2025

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Parkland, AB]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Frank Caputo]

Thank you, Mr. Lloyd.

We will now go to Mr. Ramsay.

You have five minutes.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Sauvé, I will continue the discussion you had with Mr. Lloyd.

Ms. Kirkland tried to make you say that when the RCMP detains an individual, he will be released right after. The honest truth is that you don't know what will happen after you've turned the individual over to the CBSA. Isn't that so?

[Brian Sauvé]

The RCMP, or the police of jurisdiction, will do the arrest and transfer custody. Whether that custody is to a court of jurisdiction or to another agency, a sheriff or the CBSA, the release of that individual relies on that other agency, whether it's a Crown counsel arguing detention or not, or the CBSA arguing detention or not.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

They will expel them and send them away. Yes. Okay.

Ms. Kirkland also asked you about the gun buyback program. You said you were a fan of stopping illegal arms. Well, aren't we all? This doesn't mean that you're against the buyback program, does it? I haven't seen a position from the National Police Federation that they're against the buyback program.

[Brian Sauvé]

No. Our position from 2020, which was renewed in 2024, I believe, is that in Canada, the majority of homicides and gun crimes were committed by illegal guns coming up to our borders from the States, so we support investments in combatting illegal firearms trafficking coming up from the United States.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

Yes, that is the majority of all homicides. At the same time, we can say the majority of mass murders are done with tactical military guns. Is that correct?

[Brian Sauvé]

We're lucky in Canada that we haven't had very many mass killings. However, in the ones that I've been apprised of, they were illegally obtained, yes.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

You said that, obviously, Canada is a very sought-after country for immigrants to come to. Mrs. DeBellefeuille said the borders were a sieve, and you said, “C'est ça.”

I would like to give you the chance to correct your statement. I don't think the CBSA is doing such a poor job. I think it's doing a great job, and I don't think our borders are a sieve.

[Brian Sauvé]

Maybe I misunderstood.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

I thought so.

[Brian Sauvé]

I may have misunderstood, or maybe I commented inappropriately.

Our border is quite secure, and the members of the RCMP and the CBSA do a fantastic job daily, ensuring that Canada is a great place to live. They do a great job of it.

Could they have better tools at their disposal to be even more effective? Yes, but we're not there yet.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

We're trying to hire more people.

On the subject of information sharing, in Bill C-12, clauses 28 and 29 in part 5 give the IRCC lots of means to improve communication and the sharing of information. Would you agree with that?

[Brian Sauvé]

Bill C-12 needs a bit more work in certain areas, but it is definitely a great start in improving the integration and information sharing among law enforcement agencies and other Canadian agencies.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

By “more work”, I presume you are alluding to lawful access.

[Brian Sauvé]

I think that one is out of Bill C-12.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

It's coming in Bill C-2.

[Brian Sauvé]

Yes.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

Thank you so much.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Frank Caputo]

You have another 40 seconds, if you wish.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

Do I?

Well, I'll mention another declaration from Mrs. DeBellefeuille about the “signal politique” not being there in terms of removing illegal immigrants.

I think your position on this is that, because of your limited involvement in this, you haven't seen whether there was or wasn't “un signal politique”.

I submit to you that, of the 20,000 people who were removed last year, 9,000 were people under warrant.

[Brian Sauvé]

From our perspective, if you'll indulge me for 15 seconds, a “signal politique” from my side is shifting priorities for the RCMP with limited resources.

What would be nice to see is a “signal politique” or a political movement to sit back and say that this is something we want you to do, and here are the tools and the resources to make you effective doing it.

That's versus next week, it's money laundering; the week after, it's border security; the week after, it's fentanyl; and the week after, it's this.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Frank Caputo]

Thank you, Mr. Sauvé and Mr. Ramsay.

Mrs. DeBellefeuille, would you like the floor for two and a half minutes?

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

My goodness, you're being very generous with me, Mr. Vice-Chair! If this continues, we're going to elect you as chair.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

I just want to say that you're doing a good job, Mr. Vice-Chair.