Evidence of meeting #23 for Public Safety and National Security in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was move.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Liberal
Liberal
Jacques Ramsay Liberal La Prairie—Atateken, QC
According to CPC‑27, even the exchange of straightforward, non-confidential information would be subject to a proportionality standard. This is unusual, to say the least, and it exposes us to significant problems, insofar as the proportionality standard is difficult to establish in routine operations.
Perhaps Mr. Arbour can comment more appropriately on that.
Director General, Telecommunications and Internet Policy Branch, Department of Industry
The amendment would add standards for information sharing even if the information is non-confidential. That would add a consideration. Outside of existing government activities, there is routine information sharing, for example to verify compliance with an order or regulation. That information is not confidential. The amendment would introduce some confusion when it comes to routine activities such as compliance verification.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos
Thank you.
Shall amendment CPC‑27 carry?
We'll have a recorded vote to make sure of the outcome.
(Amendment agreed to: yeas 5; nays 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos
NDP‑9 seeks to amend the same line as CPC‑27, which we just passed, which makes it inadmissible.
We'll move on to CPC‑28.
Is CPC‑28 being moved?
Mr. Caputo, you have the floor.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
Yes, I will move CPC-28.
If I may, I would ask the officials whether there is an issue with any overlap with this amendment, given the passage of CPC-27. I'd like to know that before I proceed any further, please.
Director General, Telecommunications and Internet Policy Branch, Department of Industry
Mr. Chair, there does indeed appear to be a degree of overlap or duplication, since CPC-27 applies generally and CPC-28 focuses on personal or de-identified information.
CPC-28 also introduces a concept of collective belief on behalf of the government entities involved, which is also not something I've encountered before. It could create some confusion about how to determine a group agreement on the question at hand.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
Given the overlap, I would seek unanimous consent to withdraw the amendment, and we can move on to NDP-10.
Thank you.
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos
(Amendment withdrawn)
We will move on to NDP-10, which is deemed to be moved.
Madam Kwan.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Mr. Chair, the rationale behind this amendment is that civil society groups and privacy advocates are concerned that the information collected under Bill C-8 could be used to achieve objectives that are unrelated to cybersecurity, including intelligence and surveillance activities. This amendment would introduce an interpretive clause to prevent such misuse of information collected under the bill by limiting its use to “purposes related to cyber security and information assurance”.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos
Thank you, Ms. Kwan.
Are there any comments on NDP‑10?
Over to you, Mr. Ramsay.
Liberal
Jacques Ramsay Liberal La Prairie—Atateken, QC
Essentially, the application would be limited to cybersecurity, but there could be circumstances that don't fall under cybersecurity, in this case extreme weather events. We feel that this concept simply adds confusion to the section of the act. We don't think the provision is necessary.
I would like to hear from Mr. Arbour on that.
Director General, Telecommunications and Internet Policy Branch, Department of Industry
For a change, I'll answer the question in English.
There is already a set of scoping requirements that prevents even the collection of information for law enforcement, investigatory purposes or broader national security surveillance issues. This is done at the overall scoping of the law itself but also in each individual provision. Information can only be collected if it's necessary, not just relevant now, to the order-making authorities. It's scoped a number of different ways.
In terms of the challenges with this provision of limiting it to cybersecurity considerations, part 1 deals with a range of risks to the telecommunications system, of which many are not specifically related to cybersecurity. With climate change, we've seen a fivefold increase in catastrophic damages to infrastructure as reported by the Insurance Bureau of Canada, so the information and activities that are contemplated are not strictly limited to cybersecurity.
There are other provisions that already provide guardrails, and there are further amendments that are being adopted or contemplated specifically targeting personal information that the committee has either already adopted or will be contemplating moving forward.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Jean-Yves Duclos
Thank you.
Before we move to a vote on whether the amendment is adopted or not, let me signal that if this is adopted, CPC-29 will not be movable given that they are identical.
We're going to have a recorded vote on NDP‑10.
(Amendment negatived: nays 5; yeas 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])
Liberal
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
I will not move CPC-29, because it's identical and we know how that's going to go, so yes, I will move CPC-30, please.
Liberal
Liberal
Liberal
