Evidence of meeting #12 for Science and Research in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was scholarships.
A recording is available from Parliament.
6:55 p.m.
Conservative
Ryan Williams Conservative Bay of Quinte, ON
Thank you.
I'm going to ask a general question. What are the benefits of applied research versus more traditional research methods?
6:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Polytechnics Canada
I would say that the major benefit of applied research is that it is responsive to industry. It's responsive to the partners who come to the table. Therefore, it's very pragmatic and it really responds to those commercialization of prototype needs, some of the basic challenges in business, whereas more foundational research is more fundamental, a little bit more exploratory.
I wouldn't say one is better than the other. I would say they're both important. It's just that the funding is currently balanced a lot more on foundational research than it is on applied.
6:55 p.m.
Conservative
Ryan Williams Conservative Bay of Quinte, ON
Thank you.
Madam Chair, if I run out of time, I'll ask you, Sarah, to submit this in writing. You have a few seconds left.
I know you talked about ending the tri-council exemption of the college and community innovation program, the CCIP. I know you've recommended some changes. Would you have any other recommendations that you haven't mentioned? Second, do you need another source of funding besides the CCIP?
6:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Polytechnics Canada
What concerns me about sources of funding other than CCIP is the way the peer review is set up. Even if polytechnics and colleges are eligible, they're not always able to benefit because of the way the peer review process and the eligibility happen in practice. I would say that yes, we need more than CCIP, but CCIP is one of the places where colleges and polytechnics are eligible, and right now get the vast majority of their funding. It's stacked in favour of that—
6:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kirsty Duncan
Thank you, Ms. Watts-Rynard.
Mr. Williams, do you want that in writing, just to be clear?
6:55 p.m.
Conservative
Ryan Williams Conservative Bay of Quinte, ON
Yes, please.
Sarah, please submit it in writing and we'll make sure it's included in the report. Thank you very much.
6:55 p.m.
Liberal
May 12th, 2022 / 6:55 p.m.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Thank you so much.
Thank you to our witnesses for joining us tonight. I'll be directing my questions primarily to Mr. Myers.
Thank you for coming back. I know that you did participate in our first study. We're anxious to hear from you with respect to talent attraction and recruitment.
Perimeter is a unique research environment and you have a unique approach. You stress that you aim for long-term breakthroughs, but you also contribute to near-term competitiveness in Canada. Can you elaborate on that?
6:55 p.m.
Director, Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics
Sure. We are really a resource, in many respects, for the country—or I feel we are. If we start on the side of academia, I mentioned the joint appointments that we make with nearby universities to try to draw talented researchers into the university system here. We also have affiliate memberships, with a standing invitation for Canadian faculty interested in our research areas to come to visit and participate in the activities here. We've really seen a knock-on effect in the Waterloo region. Many young talented people come here now because they've heard about Perimeter and the exciting research.
On the more practical side, it's also true that we're grooming talent with rare or mathematical and problem-solving skills that are very highly valued by the private sector. There are various ways in which we've seen our contribution flow out. Many of the young trainees here actually go on into the private sector in Canada and contribute to the economy by starting their own companies. We have trainees who have gone on to Scotiabank, RBC and BMO, or to start-ups like Desire2Learn and Xanadu. We're really grooming people with a skill set that has broad application outside of theoretical physics.
7 p.m.
Director, Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics
We actually try to encourage that by exposing the trainees here at Perimeter to the opportunities that lie outside of academia. This takes the form of workshops and presentations by industry leaders, just so that they have an idea of what the possibilities are beyond the confines of the theoretical research we do.
I talked about the Perimeter Institute Quantum Intelligence Lab, which is a unique setting where, in fact, we have a Canadian start-up, 1Qbit. Our researchers are motivated by fundamental questions, but in that case they're really playing in the same sandbox with ideas that have direct commercial application, so 1Qbit employees are sitting next to our researchers and are able to share ideas and work together, in some cases, with students or post-docs to produce interesting and practical results.
7 p.m.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Talent comes from all genders and backgrounds. I want to ask what we can learn about Perimeter's approach to advancing women and under-represented groups.
7 p.m.
Director, Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics
That's a big topic. It's a strategic direction that we're trying to advance.
We've had successes with outreach to high school students. At the master's level, we've reached gender parity in our all of our programs. It's fair to say that with more senior levels at the faculty level, we have much more work to do.
We also have various programs, like the Emmy Noether fellows program. We designed it to support early-career faculty members and researchers in their careers. That also has a spinoff effect. We recently recruited Katie Mack, who is an outstanding cosmologist and science communicator from the United States. She's come here and now holds the Hawking chair at the Perimeter Institute.
In fact, we have a grassroots effort called the PI inclusive platform that is working to advance inclusion, diversity, accessibility and equity across the entire spectrum of our efforts and activities here.
One last note is that at the board level, we currently have a board of seven members, and five are women. Our board is well ahead of the curve and a good role model for our faculty members.
7 p.m.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
That's great. I'm sure your board is better for it.
I have time for maybe one quick short answer here.
In terms of international talent and science diplomacy, some universities in Canada are currently looking to recruit talent from Ukraine, which has been disrupted by war. Is Perimeter part of that effort?
7 p.m.
Director, Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics
We have an effort going on. I would say it's not to recruit, but rather to support Ukrainian scientists, and in fact all researchers who have been affected by the war. In particular, we're working at the level of post-docs and graduate students, trying to identify talent and provide them with a safe haven—
7 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kirsty Duncan
Dr. Myers, I'm sorry to interrupt.
Ms. Bradford, would you perhaps like a written answer on that?
7 p.m.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Yes. Maybe you could finish it off in writing. Thank you.
7 p.m.
Director, Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics
I'd be happy to do that. Thank you.
7 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kirsty Duncan
Thank you.
Ms. Vignola, we're so happy that you're joining us. The floor is yours for six minutes.
7 p.m.
Julie Vignola Beauport—Limoilou, BQ
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
My first questions will be for Mr. Robinson.
Mr. Robinson, in the latest report from the Canadian Association of University Teachers, CAUT, you said the following concerning posts–pandemic recovery:
If “normal” means a return to an increasing erosion of the academic job in favour of precarious contracts with little to no benefits, we need to envision a new normal.
If I understand correctly, the phenomenon you are describing is a precariousness that impacts people. What is the impact of that precariousness on talent attraction and retention in academics? How are universities, in general, overcoming that precariousness?
Finally, how can the federal government help reduce precariousness, or how can it increase talent attraction and retention?
7:05 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of University Teachers
Thank you for the question.
It's a complicated, complex issue that I think is going to require greater co-operation between the federal government and the provinces. Obviously, labour issues and labour law are a provincial jurisdiction, and the teaching component of education is a provincial jurisdiction.
Looking at the root causes of the increase in casualization of employment is particularly important. As I said earlier, this is a largely untapped resource. We have an enormous number of people who are highly qualified and trained to be researchers but who can't get a job that recognizes their research ability. I think this is like leaving a treasure buried in the ground. We simply can't afford to do that.
In other jurisdictions, the European Union has developed a fixed-term directive on contract work that has been applied in the university, college and post-secondary sector. That's been effective in providing some security for the long-term research that's often required.
Ultimately it's a funding issue too. One reason we've seen a growth in precarity is that institutions are squeezed in terms of overall funding. I think there's potential for renewed federal partnership with the provinces in providing adequate funding for institutions.
7:05 p.m.
Beauport—Limoilou, BQ
I will talk about funding now.
Grant amounts have not been changed in over two decades. In your pre-budget submission, you recommend increasing grant amounts, even doubling them, moving toward a 50:50 grants and loans model and implementing a granting program that would help develop open education resources.
How are students currently affected by the fact that grant and loan amounts have not been increased?
I would also like you to tell us a bit more about open education. As a former teacher, I am curious.