Evidence of meeting #19 for Science and Research in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was english.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sylvie Lamoureux  Full Professor, Research Chair in Language Management, As an Individual
Jean-Pierre Perreault  President, Acfas
Laura Pelletier  Project Manager, Canadian Francophonie, Acfas
Anne-José Villeneuve  President , Alberta, Acfas

7:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kirsty Duncan

Thank you so much.

Monsieur Blanchette-Joncas, go ahead for two and a half minutes, please.

7:20 p.m.

Bloc

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I am going to go address Mr. Perreault and Ms. Pelletier, from Acfas, again. I want to go back to the funding granted by the government of Quebec to assist research in French.

Mr. Perreault, that is still part of the recommendations in the report released by Acfas in 2021, which speaks volumes. Could you tell us more about the importance of creating a national service to assist research in French? What do you expect of the federal government, in concrete terms, in connection with that structure?

7:25 p.m.

President, Acfas

Jean-Pierre Perreault

Earlier, I gave an example of the kind of support the service to assist research in French will offer. That service is a kind of single window that the entire community, and researchers who want to do research in French, will be able to use.

For Acfas, this service is an absolute priority, to the point that we decided to launch it before the government of Quebec offered us our first grant. One person will not be enough. There will have to be a team to process funding applications that will come from the four corners of the country, in every field. This group will not necessarily have to be physically present in Quebec. Its members could be spread throughout Canada, to take the regional aspect into account, while remaining connected with one another.

The federal government has to give the project its full support, because that will make it possible for French to be sustainable as a language of research in Canada.

7:25 p.m.

Bloc

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Thank you.

Prof. Villeneuve, you talked about the federal government's responsibility regarding bilingualism, and in particular for promoting French as a language of communication and scientific publication. Since 2012, the federal government has abandoned the symposiums that did research on the official languages, among other things. Before that, it had created the Canadian Institute for Research on Linguistic Minorities.

Can you give me your opinion concerning the government's responsibilities in this regard, and do you have other recommendations to make?

7:25 p.m.

President , Alberta, Acfas

Anne-José Villeneuve

In my opinion, there are two important elements. The first is research on linguistic minorities. The second is holding events in person or online and promoting and supporting publications, two things that contribute to the vitality of research in French.

We are focusing on research. Obviously, for there to be a next generation of researchers, there must be students. So I again come back to Ms. Lamoureux's remarks. The message being sent, if we rely...

7:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kirsty Duncan

Professor Villeneuve, I am sorry.

It's such a short time. It's the worst part of this job. I hope you forgive me.

We'll go to Monsieur Boulerice for two and a half minutes.

Go ahead, please.

7:25 p.m.

NDP

Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Prof. Villeneuve, this is the second time you have not been able to finish expressing your idea about incentives for students. I want to know how the story ends, please.

7:25 p.m.

President , Alberta, Acfas

Anne-José Villeneuve

How the story ends is that it takes professor/researchers who are able to promote academic research in French to their students. If there are no professors who can teach or supervise students' work in French, the message we are sending is not spoken, it is lived.

Why not include a language incentive when filling out a grant application that wants to know what is going to be done with the money, what is going to be published, and which student or postdoctoral researcher is going to be supervised? That way, a person could say they are going to use the grant to supervise 20 students, but they are going to encourage 10 students who are able to do research in French to do so. The number is important, yes, but quality is too.

7:25 p.m.

NDP

Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

That is perfect, thank you.

Prof. Perreault, you talked about the decline in publications in Italian, in Spanish, and in various national languages. Has there been any reaction to this decline from the scientific community or the research community, particularly in Europe, or is everyone getting behind English?

7:25 p.m.

President, Acfas

Jean-Pierre Perreault

The answer to that question is simple: yes, absolutely.

All societies are asking themselves the same question. I think the transformation that is going to take place in the next few years in terms of methods of dissemination may be going to create new opportunities for reviving activities in various languages, like French.

If I engage in a bit of futurology, I have to say that I am not sure that existing publication methods are the ones that will be recommended in the future. There may be an opportunity there to be more dynamic, and it may be francophones who should be dictating the future course to take when it comes to dissemination of knowledge.

7:30 p.m.

Project Manager, Canadian Francophonie, Acfas

Laura Pelletier

I would like to add that research shows that publishing only in major journals, to pad someone's record, leads to abandonment of more local research subjects. That has a direct impact on the way you, as MPs, shape policy. If you want to have data on which to rely in developing policies and offering services...

7:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kirsty Duncan

Ms. Pelletier, I'm sorry. The hardest part of this is keeping time. I hate to interrupt all of you.

We started a couple of minutes late, so I'm going to give Mr. Blanchette-Joncas one question, and then one question will go to Ms. Diab as well.

We'll have short questions and short answers.

7:30 p.m.

Bloc

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My question is for the people from Acfas.

In your report entitled "A portrait of the challenges of French-language research in a minority context in Canada," you report that the success rate for applications in English was higher in the case of certain granting bodies, including the Canadian Institutes of Health Research. It talks about a success rate of 38.5 per cent in English versus 29.2 per cent in French.

How do you explain that discrepancy? Are francophone researchers less intelligent than anglophone researchers?

7:30 p.m.

President, Acfas

Jean-Pierre Perreault

As I said a little earlier, applying for a grant in French puts an applicant at a disadvantage from the start, since the application is not as well regarded.

Also, since the evaluator at the granting council sometimes overestimates their own level of bilingualism, they can have trouble grasping the subtleties of French and understanding the description of the research project properly.

The problem is therefore not the intelligence of the francophone researchers, but the person evaluating the application, unfortunately.

7:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kirsty Duncan

Thank you to you both.

Now we'll go to Ms. Diab for a short question and a short answer, please.

7:30 p.m.

Liberal

Lena Metlege Diab Liberal Halifax West, NS

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to sincerely thank all the witnesses.

Canada has adopted a target for francophone immigration, a goal that I wholeheartedly support and that we are working very hard to achieve. We all want to attract brilliant researchers or international students to our institutions.

How can we make Canada a destination of choice for francophone researchers and postsecondary students?

7:30 p.m.

President, Acfas

Jean-Pierre Perreault

I am going to start answering and then let Ms. Villeneuve finish.

I think we have to begin by reviewing our immigration services to ensure a certain level of speed in processing applications. At present, in the academic world, the delays are infinitely long when it comes to the administrative red tape associated with international students, and this regularly prompts people to go and study elsewhere.

Nonetheless, Canada is a country of choice and I believe in its value. We have dynamic, top quality research environments. There is therefore no reason why people would not want to come here.

7:30 p.m.

President , Alberta, Acfas

Anne-José Villeneuve

I would add that Canada is already a destination of choice for international students. When a student from the Saint-Jean campus of the University of Alberta begins their studies in French, they quickly realize that English has a very strong pull. The idea is therefore not to attract these students, but to retain them in the francophonie.

7:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kirsty Duncan

On behalf of the committee, let me say thank you for your time, your expertise, your experience and your ideas. We are all very grateful.

With that, we will say good night to our excellent witnesses.

To our colleagues here, this completes the public portion of our meeting. We will suspend briefly in order to go to in camera proceedings.

[Proceedings continue in camera]