Science and Research Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2023

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

That really didn't answer my question, though. You talked a lot about how we should be doing more and we're going to be doing more, but nothing seems to really have been done. Why not?

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

MP Lauzon, you have the floor.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Mr. Chair, we have waited a long time for the Minister's appearance and we have worked hard with Mr. Blanchette-Joncas to undertake two very important studies: research and scientific publication in French and international moonshot programs.

At this point, the questions relate to national security and so have nothing to do with our study. Can we get back to the subject at hand and ask the questions we have been waiting a very long time to ask?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

I will rule the line of questioning in order because we are talking about science, moon shots and the importance of why a country would do a large scientific investment without protecting it. I would rule the line of questioning in order.

I'll pass the floor back to Mr. Soroka for two minutes and 50 seconds.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Thank you for that.

Minister, I'll go on to a different question, then.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Do you want me to answer that question, sir?

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Sure.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I would object to that. If you look at budget 2022, we invested $159.6 million for the implementation of the national security guidelines for research partnerships. We not only put guidelines out, sir, but we even put in money to back these guidelines to help universities. I'm having discussions with the granting councils and with the U15, which are the 15 largest universities in Canada.

Sir, there's no one more committed to protecting our IP and research. I'm sure you are the same. This is not a partisan issue. This is about protecting our country.

If we want to be the best in class in the G7 and in the world, we need to have proper guidelines. We're going to help the universities to do that.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

That's one of my next questions.

It seems like the universities are kind of floundering. They're not certain where the federal government stands. They don't have the money or financial means to continue doing this research, so they look to organizations such as the NUDT to get research done.

Why are they having to create their own policies or put in place their own safety protocols when the federal government isn't doing that for them?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Based on my discussions, the U15 and others have been asking us to provide them with the guidelines. I think that's what they expect from their federal government. I'm sure you appreciate that this is a shared jurisdiction with the provinces and there are a lot of people in the ecosystem.

You're going to see in the next guidelines we'll be issuing that we're going to be enjoining universities across Canada to adopt similar rules to protect sensitive research and IP. I think this is in the best interests of Canada.

I can tell you that I am, with my officials.... You have the best people here in Canada who are leading with research and innovation and are truly committed to protecting our scientists and researchers. In order to do that, they're asking from us.... The guidelines we put in place last time, sir, were really a coordinated approach. With the recent event that you mentioned, we're going to do more because I am not happy. It's unacceptable. I've been saying that very clearly to them. We'll come out with additional guidelines. I think that's what they want.

That's also why we created the research security centre. In reality it's sometimes complex for them to understand that. They need to work with our intelligence agency.

I would say this is a team Canada effort to do what's best for the country.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

Thank you kindly, for those answers.

We now move on to Member Lauzon from the Liberals for six minutes.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Minister.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Like me, you are a strong defender of Quebec's French language. We are lucky to have a minister who not only comes from Quebec, but comes from a region that is strongly francophone.

You have with you today a whole team that represents the research field well. However, can you tell me what our government is doing to eliminate barriers to research in French, to support and promote the distribution of research in French, and to assist French-speaking researchers?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you. I am very glad to be asked that question. Yes, I come from Shawinigan. Because I did a large majority of my studies in French, I understand the importance of French in scientific research.

There actually is good news on this subject. I am told that a quarter of the reviewers on the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada and the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council selection committees are francophones. I am also told that about 73% of the grant applications submitted in French are accepted. Our rate is actually higher than what we might expect. The reality is that the research councils are subject to the Official Languages Act. If you want to know more, my colleagues will be able to answer.

Personally, Mr. Lauzon, I make sure that I promote all of the initiatives. As I said in my opening remarks, there are various initiatives that mobilize francophones, not just in urban centres, but also in rural areas. We have to make sure that our programs encourage young people. We know that Canada's strength lies in our talent, today. If we want to prosper in the future, we have to focus on talent.

We are in the process of studying what is done elsewhere and we are finding that the situation is the same in Germany, Italy and other countries when it comes to the language of publications: English is used in a large proportion of them. That is also true in the other G7 countries.

We must therefore make extra efforts to support this process. I can tell you that this is a concern. In my view, this linguistic duality, which is important, is part of diversity. Even though these decisions are made by the research councils, our colleagues around the table are well aware of our interest and the role we play, as francophones. We have to be sure that all of the programs function, and even that translation of scientific publications is facilitated. There are policies, but we have also invested funds in this.

If you would like more details, I can ask Iain Stewart to tell you exactly what his council has done in this regard.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

We will come back to that at the end if we have time.

I also want to talk about what you did on January 13. I am talking about the launch of Canada's National Quantum Strategy, which represents an investment of $360 million. On November 28, as part of this study, Arthur McDonald, who received the Nobel Prize in physics in 2015, came to speak to us about Canada's important advantage when it comes to quantum research, primarily in the field of quantum computing. There were a lot of questions about that.

Do you think that Canada's National Quantum Strategy is considered by your team to be a moonshot project?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Yes, very much so. I believe my colleagues at the United States Commerce Department realize that Canada really has a head start, particularly when it comes to artificial intelligence, the quantum field, and cyber security. That is important, because in the 21st century economy, all our other strategies, be they in the field of aerospace, electric vehicles, or the biopharmaceutical industry, to name just those few, will be supported by artificial intelligence, the quantum field and cyber security. I think this strategy has been applauded by Canadians, but everywhere on the planet.

I will give you a concrete example: Xanadu, a Toronto company that has the only quantum computer in the world that deals with battery chemistry. If you talk to the big auto manufacturing executives anywhere in the world, you will find that they all know about Xanadu. Why? Because Xanadu's quantum computer can save them three years of R&D on the batteries of the future.

These are the kind of examples we can offer. We also have D‑Wave, and of course the C2MI innovation centre in Sherbrooke. They are accomplishing extraordinary things.

We are currently in talks with our colleagues in Washington to decide what projects we could work on jointly. Somewhat like between Windsor and Detroit, one thing I would like to see is a big corridor established between Albany and Bromont that would involve education and semiconductor research and manufacturing. It is a project that seems to be on track and I think there is going to be good news about it.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

So we can feel the strength of Canada's position. However, do we have this collaboration with all of the G7 countries, with which we can be an important player in exchanging information?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

In fact, I think that collaboration with allies and partners is the way of the future. We have done it in artificial intelligence with the Global Partnership on Artificial Intelligence, the GPAI. You will recall that France and Canada were the two founding countries of that organization for the advancement of artificial intelligence.

When I travel outside Canada, my colleagues realize that Canada is an important player in the quantum field. Competition is strong, however. So we have to continue to invest, and that is why we have adopted a national strategy to highlight our strengths and advantages.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Corey Tochor]

Thank you, Minister.

We'll move on to the Bloc and MP Blanchette-Joncas.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here, Minister.

Canada is in the middle of a catastrophic language crisis in the sciences. Between 2000 and 2021, scientific publications in French in Quebec fell from 4% to 0.6%.

As minister, do you acknowledge the linguistic death throes that the sciences find themselves in, in Quebec and in all of Canada?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I think this is a matter of concern. As I said earlier, we have examined the comparative data and this phenomenon also exists in Germany, Italy and Japan. There is a global trend toward publishing in English.

To reply to your comments, I think we have to do more in this regard, and that is exactly what I have asked of the teams. That is why we have made sure that there are quite a few francophones on the various funding councils.

I think the good news is the 73% acceptance rate for grant applications submitted in French. That means that the people who submit an application are receiving a lot of money...

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Yes, I'm very familiar with that statistic, Minister. You talked about the 73% acceptance rate, and the acceptance rates for applications in French are actually lower in other funding organizations.

However, the funding granted for research and publication in French is lower than what is granted for publication in English. In three funding bodies, funding for research and publication in French accounts for between 5% and 12% of the total amount, while francophones represent more than 20% of the total number of researchers. That means that 50% of francophone researchers are not publishing in French, for various reasons, including the lack of recognition or the lower value placed on research and scientific publications in French.

I am going to move on to another question now. Since you took office in your department two years ago, what concrete measures have you taken to ensure the survival of French in science? What is your vision of French in science in Canada?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

As I said earlier, I come from the francophone academic world. You will therefore understand that I am passionate about making sure that we can work and study in French. I do that not only through the work my colleagues do on the various funding councils, but also by adding my voice to yours and to my colleagues' when it comes to stressing the importance of promoting the role of French.

We are aware of the current global phenomenon, but I think we still have to be vigilant. We have to be capable of doing it. We have to promote our researchers who work in French. We have to make sure we are capable of attracting talent in French to our research institutes.

For example, I am thinking of Mila, an institute that has built a global reputation in the field of artificial intelligence. In fact, I have an anecdote about that. On his official visit to Canada, the German Chancellor himself chose to visit the Mila offices in Montreal, and this clearly shows the head start we have in artificial intelligence.