Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure Committee on April 14th, 2016

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

There are five.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Five feels like a lot.

For the Auditor General, we already heard from the staff. We spent quite a bit of time with them and, to me, it was pretty clear they said their work was what it was, but if there's anything political you guys are on your own. My instinct is more to separate them from there and maybe call them back at the very end if we have questions of clarification, but I'm not sure—

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

They're the police that will tell you if the rest of these people are blowing smoke with what they tell you, because they'll say they audited them and it was—

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I think they need to be here because if they're not, we can't include anything that.... You know, that's part of the report, so I don't think they need to re-present what they presented—

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

No, I don't think they need to present. I simply see them as being a check in the system, because we're hearing from the rest of the people on what they were doing and if they don't recollect the facts correctly, the Auditor General will, for sure, come with a correction.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Can I ask a question, then, in terms of timing for presentations?

When these groups are coming in, are they going to each be asked to do a 10-minute presentation, or how are we going to...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

We have the ability to determine what we want them to do.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Sheila, my concern is that you have one, two, three, four, so that takes up 40 minutes with presentations and it really leaves very little time for questions.

I think what we really want to do is get in more questions rather than long presentations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

I think when it comes to meeting number two with all of these folks, what we're really wanting to interview them about is what they did on implementing gender-based analysis—

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Or what they didn't do and why.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

—or what they didn't do. I think we don't even need to have them bring a presentation.

Is it offensive to them if we invite them to come and give us the benefit of their minds, without asking them to make a presentation?

[The Clerk]

It's probably best that they at least have some time to provide a presentation. Our routine motions currently stipulate that each witness provides a 10-minute presentation, or up to 10 minutes. We can move a motion, or ask the committee if they agree to shorten that to maybe five minutes, if we feel that would give us more time for questions, as an option.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I think it's a good idea, especially because in this area we're going to try to keep really focused on the Auditor General's report. We're not trying to highly raise our level of understanding, so I think in this case it does make sense.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Yes, just ask them for five minutes.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I'd also like to propose that we do split these into two panels. I found the piece in the AG's report that reminds me of the rationale. On page 2 of the report, they say they selected Employment and Social Development, and Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development because they were included in the 2009 audit, and then they did a comparison.

Then for the second two agencies, Industry Canada and Natural Resources Canada, the AG selected them because they committed to implementing a GBA framework in the 2010 and 2012 fiscal years respectively.

There are two slightly different ways that the AG looked at them and two slightly different experiences. I don't think it's going to change the time, but if we did call them in two different panels it might help us focus our questions more succinctly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

You'd want the first hour to be Employment and Social Development Canada, and Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada, with five minutes each for presentations, and the Auditor General sits through that. Then the second hour would be Innovation, Science and Economic Development and Natural Resources Canada, with five-minute presentations each, and the Auditor General sitting through that.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Yes.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

That's right. In the report it's called Industry Canada, but you're right that they've changed the name now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

All right. That's meeting number two then.

Then meeting number three—

Go ahead.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Sorry, Madam Chair.

Before those meetings, because they are going to be very short at five minutes for presentations, would it be possible to get some kind of brief before the meeting from each one of those?

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

I think that's a great idea, sending their data in advance. They're only going to chat for five minutes, but if they have more data that they want to provide to us, they could send it in advance so that we could have.... I'd love it if we could get it 48 hours before the meeting. It's an excellent suggestion.

Then meeting three would be divided up with the Privy Council and the Treasury Board for an hour, and then the Department of Finance, and potentially some of these people that are in meeting four. Meeting four is Public Works and Government Services, Health Canada, Canada Revenue Agency, and Statistics Canada.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Is the idea with some of these, for example Health Canada and CRA, that we want them to come to say why they're not doing it?

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

I have no idea.

Did Ms. Harder say anything in her justification?

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Again, I would recommend that we exclude, because they weren't the focus of the AG's report. I think it would be harder for us to dig in quickly.

Public Works and Government Services Canada was the agency the minister referenced as being one of the success stories, so that was my rationale for asking them what's different about their experience.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Then we're going to cross out Health Canada and CRA...?