Status of Women Committee on March 1st, 2007

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

So all policies that go to the Department of Finance from your various ministries go through that process first.

[Linda Lizotte-MacPherson]

Well, in our case, management policies would go to Treasury Board ministers for approval, and yes, that analysis would be done in advance of that. They would never go to Treasury Board without that analysis and understanding of potential impact.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Okay.

As to my other question, there was a task force commissioned by the previous government, and the report was made in December 2005. One of the recommendations it made...and the reason for the task force at the time was because of the difficulty of getting GBA across the whole of the government. I understand in your departments there are some departments that are doing better than others. At that time, there was talk about legislation, and the report does recommend and it has guidelines for a possible bill.

I wonder if any of you have read that and whether you might tell me what you think of that particular recommendation and whether or not we need a bill, not with respect to your departments but maybe.... Maybe it's not a fair question. Just tell me what you think of that recommendation and how it's structured.

I'm thinking that the departments we have here are probably the ones that are more in tune with the GBA as opposed to some others.

[Donna Miller]

I think there are different ways of approaching gender-based analysis. Certainly what we would say is, whichever way is chosen, if it's legislated or if it's part and parcel of what we do, which is how we function in the Department of Justice, we think the focus has to be on outcomes. In other words, it's about whether we achieve the priorities, the outcomes that we're looking for. GBA is an essential tool to achieve our outcomes.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Would you see legislation helping us get there faster in any way, not necessarily in your own department but across the whole of the government structures?

[Donna Miller]

Speaking for the Department of Justice, because GBA is so closely associated with charter and equality rights as well, it's part and parcel of the work we do. So, again, although we obviously would take any direction from the government, and if the government chooses to legislate GBA, so be it, it's so inherent in the work we do. I think the question I would pose is, how does it help us better achieve our outcomes?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I see I'm running out of time already. All right. I guess this will be my final question then, until my next round, if I have another shot.

How closely do you work with Status of Women Canada? Do your departments work with Status of Women Canada with respect to this issue?

[Kathy O'Hara]

I suspect we all do in the sense that any time a policy proposal is submitted for cabinet consideration, all policy proposals go through fairly elaborate interdepartmental consultation processes. So Status of Women Canada is always a participant in that process. That's another layer, if I can call it that, of challenge function when proposals go forward.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I think Status of Women Canada was initially the lead department in terms of training. This may not be a fair question to ask you, but do you know if they are still working with other departments or with all departments to--

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Your time is up, Ms. Minna.

I'll let you answer that before we go to Madame Deschamps.

[Linda Lizotte-MacPherson]

I'm sorry, I didn't hear the question.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Okay. We'll leave that for now and pick it up later.

Madame Deschamps.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

To begin with, I would like to convey my greetings to all of you and thank you for answering our invitation and providing your testimony today.

Following up on the comments made by my colleague, who was saying earlier that the Standing Committee on the Status of Women recommended, in a 2005 report, that Status of Women Canada provide support to departments with gender-based analysis. Ms. MacPherson discussed that in her paper. She thanked Status of Women Canada for its cooperation. My question is addressed to the other departments that are represented here today. I would like to know whether Status of Women Canada is supporting them in their gender-based analysis.

[Monique Boudrias]

In our case, because the Human Resources Management Agency is an agency that provides internal services relating to the government's HR policies, our situation is somewhat different from that of my colleagues whose departments serve Canadians directly. So, working with the Treasury Board Secretariat, whose mandate is to carry out analysis, our employees have access to training courses developed in cooperation with Status of Women Canada. In our case, we work far more with the Human Rights Commission than we do with Status of Women Canada, because of our mandate as an employer inside the federal government.

[Donna Miller]

Speaking for Justice Canada, I can advise you that we have always had a strong partnership with Status of Women on gender issues. I think it's also important to position the Department of Justice insofar as the work we do. We do play a strong interdepartmental role, particularly given that in our legal services units in each department, we have lawyers who play a challenge function to ensure that where they are consulted, the policy is sound and the legal advice--for example, in charter equality--is factored into policy development.

So to answer the honourable member's question, yes, we have a strong partnership with Status of Women.

Secondly, Justice Canada itself has strong relationships across the whole of government of Canada in that we provide legal advice and we have lawyers in most, if not all, of the departments across government.

[Janet Siddall]

The CIC has worked very closely with Status of Women in developing our own capacity and our training. We believe we have our own internal capacity, but we continue to collaborate on training sessions and presentations with Status of Women and our other government departments.

[Kathy O'Hara]

It's the same for us. We work with Status of Women, but increasingly we are trying to build up our own expertise and our own tools. For example, I mentioned the case studies we use during training events. I think we have the capacity internally to work on those, and that's one thing we'd like to do.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Go ahead, Ms. Deschamps.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I would just like to make a comment. In 2005, the Canadian Feminist Alliance for International Action made public a study of the last 10 federal budgets conducted by economist Armine Yalnizyan, which clearly demonstrated that budget cuts have been made at the expense of women, and that the years of prosperity have not always benefited them.

I would like to know whether there has been any rebalancing of government actions in favour of women, particularly with respect to housing, employment insurance, child care and pay equity, with a view to addressing the problems they face.

[Kathy O'Hara]

I'm not familiar with the study you're referring to, so I'm not exactly sure what the author was referring to.

I think over the past few years, certainly with respect to our department, there have been improvements in the employment insurance system, for example, with respect to maternity and parental benefits. The government recently introduced the universal child care benefit, of which the primary beneficiaries are women. There have been improvements in the guaranteed income supplement. I think this committee has talked about this before, about how over two-thirds of the recipients of the guaranteed income supplement are women. So I'm not exactly sure what the author was referring to, but there have been some initiatives. I'm not sure what time periods she was referring to since then.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Madame Deschamps, you have another minute.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

As you know, cuts were announced on September 25 that also affected a number of other programs aimed at women. I would like to know whether, as part of the cuts announced on September 25, gender-based analysis has been affected.

[Linda Lizotte-MacPherson]

Actually, I just wanted to respond to the previous question you had about some of the changes we've seen inside the core public administration, as an employer. What our research has found is that over the past 15 years, the gender wage gap itself has actually shrunk by more than half. There is a short deck, a statistical presentation, that we will share with the committee, highlighting some of the really significant progress. So I think we've made good progress.

We've also made headway in addition to reducing the gender wage gap in the public service by more than almost half. More encouraging, I think, is the fact that the gender wage gap in new recruits and staff under 35 is now 2%. So at this rate, I think we can expect to see even better results.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you. I'm sorry to cut you off. Our time for that member has just run out, but certainly you could continue in your other answers.

Mrs. Davidson.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much to our witnesses this afternoon. Certainly it's an extremely important issue, and one that, from your testimony, is not only important to us, but certainly important to you as well.

Actually, my question was going to be for Linda and it was going to be on the issue that Madame Deschamps has just introduced. Unfortunately, we don't have enough time to hear everybody's full testimony. Thank goodness we have the written submission before us, because I was very interested in what you had to say in here about your update on the recent findings for the gender wage gap.

I wonder if you could tell us a bit more about that. You go on to say that over 15 years, the wage gap has shrunk by more than half. Maybe you could just elaborate a bit more on what you were starting to say to Madame Deschamps, please.