Status of Women Committee on May 8th, 2007

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

I was very interested in what you had to say about verbal abuse. It's very clear that there needs to be some work around harassment and abating that kind of abuse. I was curious about, first of all, the reticence of employers to even acknowledge it, and secondly, perhaps you could comment on the impact of this kind of violence in terms of the women working in nursing and how it relates to economic security.

[Sheri Oliver]

To the defence of employers within the health care system, I think honestly that they're stuck between a rock and hard place. If they address things, they're going to open up a can of worms and have a lot of problems that they may or may not have the tools to deal with.

As for what that does to nurses, it feeds into the current apathy. It addresses the hugely enormous problem of retention of nurses within the system, and in terms of recruitment.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

How am I doing, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

You have 40 seconds.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Oh dear.

I noticed, too, that there are 10,000 licensed practical nurses who are employed as casual employees. It would seem to me that casual is not a choice that most nurses would choose to make, because it's so unpredictable. Could you describe how casual employment compares to full-time employment? What difference does it make in the life of the working mom?

[Sheri Oliver]

From a personal perspective, it makes 120-degree difference. You actually are able to plan for your child's education. You're actually adequately able to plan for what you can do with your education if you have your sights set on something in terms of a five-year plan. I worked 10 years in a casual position. I wanted full-time, but it was not available. I was actually able to plan to go to school, to be able to do some of the things I wanted to be able to do. I was actually able to plan out some of those work-life balance issues that we all face everyday.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Now we'll go to the second round.

Ms. Neville, five minutes.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Again, thank you to all of you for coming today.

Both of your organizations are representative, obviously, of workplaces with predominantly women. We're hearing about many of the challenges.

Ms. O'Haire and Mr. Staple, I was a little startled when I heard the figures you gave on the inequities in terms of the pay...because we know that men and women are paid the equal amount. But when I made the connection between leaving the workplace and educational opportunities, it certainly makes sense; there's a lack of it.

We're here right now looking at the whole issue of the economic security of women. Both organizations have made a number of recommendations that talk about social justice and inequities in society as a whole. I would be interested in knowing from all of you what specific recommendations you would make to us on public policy recommendations we could put forward to better redress the imbalance faced by women in your professions.

Obviously we're hearing that child care is front and centre, and a national child care program that's flexible and accessible and whatever. But do you have other suggestions that you would make in terms of redressing the imbalance in the economic opportunities for women?

[Sheri Oliver]

From a nursing perspective, in terms of the 95% women in that population, should there be equal access—and more access—to full-time employment, it would lessen some of the systemic stressors that exist, such as child care, such as education, such as work-life balance.

[John Staple]

Some of these things I referenced earlier, I think. When we look at the time periods that have the biggest impact, they are the timeframes within which children are being raised. Then at the other end of the career, it's elder care.

The suggestions we are making with respect to employment insurance and changes to CPP would, we think, have a significant impact on moderating the economic effects of that. At the same time, I think what the EI program should do and what employment contracts should do is not penalize women for parenting, maternity, and adoption roles, for the periods of time when they're doing that. Neither should they penalize men who wish to take part in those same kinds of activities.

So the policies have to be geared to adjust to that in some fashion. Now, you can change the policies so that you can moderate the economic impact; what's more difficult is adjusting policies and opportunities to allow for the education opportunities that were lost as a result of the time. That's something we need to focus on as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

One minute, Ms. Neville.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Ms. Mathyssen raised the issue of the cancellation of the advocacy role in the Status of Women.

To both organizations, how do you see that cancellation affecting you? What impact will that have, either on you as organizations or on women generally?

[Noreen O'Haire]

In terms of women in general, those cuts removed the voices or eliminated the voices of some women. Immigrant women, women who are single parents, women who do not have huge educational opportunities already, women who have many stressors, battered women—all sorts of women look to Status of Women organizations for voices in doing these things. If you remove the infrastructure that helps those voices be heard, then you in a sense stifle those voices.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you.

We now go to Mr. Chong for five minutes.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to thank Madam Oliver for her testimony. It has been interesting and nuanced. But I want to actually address my comments to the Canadian Teachers' Federation.

You talk a great deal about equality, but there's one intellectually inconsistent element to your organization that I'd like you to address in a moment. A second problem that your organization, I think, needs to address, the intellectually inconsistent basis for your organization, is that one of your members is a Catholic Teachers' Federation.

We all know that in the province of Ontario the government funds Catholic schools. It's the only religious denomination funded in the province of Ontario, yet you say you support a strong public education system. That's intellectually inconsistent. It's inconsistent, pointe finale.

Ontario is the most diverse population in the country. Toronto is over 50% visible minorities. We have a situation where we're funding Catholic education—you're supporting that because one of your members is a Catholic organization—but we're excluding other Christian denominations, we're excluding parochial schools of the Muslim faith, of the Jewish faith. So it's interesting for you to appear in front of the committee and talk to us about equality, but that's a gross example of inequality, something that's been highlighted by the United Nations as well.

Either you truly believe in public education and you fund only a single public education system to the detriment of all religious denominations, or in a society that's becoming increasingly diverse, rapidly changing, you fund all parochial schools, whether they be of certain Christian faiths or Muslim faiths or other faiths.

That's one intellectual inconsistency that I think needs to be pointed out, because you do say you support public education, you do say you believe in equality.

The second thing I point out is my belief that society needs to encourage equality of the sexes. I think that's very important. I think it has been a key determinant of societies; an indicator of societies that are good is societies where women and men have achieved or are in the process of achieving equality. But I suggest that one of the big challenges facing your organization is a lack of diversity, a lack of minority representation amongst your members, and I'm interested to hear what initiatives you're undertaking—

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Order! Don't accuse the organization of discrimination or anything. They are here to come before us, and we need to respect them. So pose a question on what they have presented.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I am posing a question. Madam Chair, with all due respect, I am posing a question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

On economic security, Mr. Chong.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

We're here to talk about equality—

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Mr. Chong.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

—we're here to talk about the role of women, the role of minorities—

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

As chair, I am going to rule you out of order if you badger the witness or accuse them of a failure—

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I'm not.