Status of Women Committee on Oct. 22nd, 2009

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

You made reference to the 2006 Harry Arthurs report and you talked about the pieces you would have liked to have seen implemented. Who is responsible to implement those recommendations? Do you know?

[Allison Pilon]

It is my understanding that HRSDC is looking at those recommendations now. Through the Canadian Labour Congress we provided inputs to HRSDC recently, earlier this year. The Canadian Labour Congress provided a whole host of comments on the recommendations and an indication of which recommendations we supported and believed would be positive improvements for employment standards. I don't know what the status of it is at the moment.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

But we're at the end of 2009. Isn't that rather slow?

[Allison Pilon]

Yes. My understanding is it was put on the shelf for a few years and HRSDC has picked it up this year and is studying the recommendations.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Dusted it off, as it were.

[Allison Pilon]

Yes.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I see. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

We will now move into the second round, which is a five-minute round. I would like to please again ask everyone to keep their questions as well as their answers short, so that we can get more questions in and more answers in.

Madame Zarac.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I have two questions to ask. My first will be very brief because the second will be a little longer.

My first question is for Ms. Ducharme who said that most women work part-time and that only 28% do so as a matter of choice.

Do you have these data? We spoke of this in our committee and we debated around this question of choice. Do you have that document and could you submit it to the committee?

[Patty Ducharme]

Yes. We are just looking at our footnotes to see what the source was. Perhaps I could answer that question in a couple of seconds.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Now for my second question. When you have the answer, please… Anyway, if you have it, we would like you to submit it to the committee.

This week I attended an award ceremony for business women in Quebec. At my table sat a young 26 year old woman who had studied science and engineering. This young woman began her own business because she was not taken seriously when she worked for big companies. So she decided to open up her own shop and she is succeeding very well. Indeed she received an award that evening.

So your dream, Mrs. Matsui, is coming to a reality.

As a matter of fact, young women…

But it is not that easy. I hear today that there are huge obstacles, particularly in some fields.

According to a document from the Library of Parliament, 40% of management positions are held by women. However, only 17% are executive positions and only 6% senior executive positions. I would not consider this as non-traditional work. If we put this in the non-traditional category, I find this really worrisome.

You spoke of roadblocks. Really we are not talking about technological impediments, but rather of an employment equity issue.

Do you think that this is a realistic conclusion? I believe that throughout our discussion today we spoke more about employment equity than about defining non-traditional work.

[Patty Ducharme]

Many of the barriers women face in non-traditional employment and in employment in general are related to the fact that they are equity group members. That's why we have an Employment Equity Act. Sadly, it doesn't have the teeth we'd like to see it have.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

What could we do to give it more teeth?

[Patty Ducharme]

Well, I think we could make employers more accountable. We could provide for more employment equity officers who audit the work of federally-regulated employers across the country. It's my understanding that very few employers are actually audited for their employment equity statistics. I am an employer, as a union. We hire good staff. We try to be good to our staff, but I'm not convinced that all employers take their employment equity obligations seriously until such time as they are actually audited by the government.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Yes, because with equal competencies, minorities should have priority.

Ms. Matsui, you spoke about a company that set aside these CVs. Have they been exposed? This is serious!

[Hiromi Matsui]

No, of course they're not, unfortunately. They're not reported, because these people, ironically enough, are looked on as allies, because they actually dared publicly to talk about it and attend a conference about women in the trades.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Did you say that they spoke publicly about it? I am sorry but I did not understand.

[Hiromi Matsui]

This manager talked publicly about it. The fact that he had the courage to speak about it, in an environment that was positive for women in the trades.... He was giving evidence of the challenges women face. So of course, no one would think of calling up some provincial manager with a complaint against this man.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

If you had two dream priorities, what would they be? Keep in mind that this committee is studying this to make it better. What would be your two priorities? What would be your recommendations to this committee?

[Hiromi Matsui]

I think you raised a very good point about equality, and we've been talking about equity. Patty made a recommendation about tying infrastructure money to equality or equity provisions. I'm afraid that dollars do matter and that the process of giving dollars should involve a greater involvement in equity issues.

I know that some agencies are looking at doing this and are revising processes, but these things take a very long time. The fact is that we have legislation that people are not following. So how are we to get people to understand how important it is? It's a huge challenge. But thank you.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to Ms. Hoeppner.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I appreciate that.

I appreciate the witnesses being here. I especially appreciate Ms. Matsui. I think in many ways you are a role model for young women. So thank you for being here and for sharing your story.

One of the things that I think is so important is that we find a way to help young women and young girls dream of being involved in the trades and in non-traditional roles. I think that's probably where we need to start, because if we don't see that happen, we won't have women who are grown....

Right now, young girls can imagine themselves as doctors and lawyers, but they aren't really imagining themselves involved in trades and craftsmanship. I actually just recently read an article about how, overall, we have undervalued the tremendous contribution labour and craftsmanship skills provide to our society and our economy. I think we're reaping that right now with the huge shortage of skilled labour we have. Right now, we're seeing it even more so with women being involved in non-traditional roles.

I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit about what you do and what your group does to educate young women, specifically young girls, even at the elementary level. Is there a program right now that is working to educate and inspire young girls to get involved? As I said, I'm thinking more about programs aimed at the elementary and high school levels as opposed to older young women.

[Hiromi Matsui]

Thank you.

There are a large number of programs for elementary and high school girls. There are even programs for pre-school children now; it's not for lack of volunteer organizations or for-profit organizations. We have a lot of activity within Canada encouraging kids to do math and to study puzzles. You go into any store and you will see that very young kids, often middle-class kids, are very encouraged to do these kinds of things; but there's certainly a lot more education needed in the trades area.

I think most parents realize as soon as their kids start buying toys that their choices get directed very, very quickly through media and the products they develop. One young computer scientist I work with, who is a mother, told me that when her daughter was three or four, she loved playing with math blocks, but then suddenly stopped playing with them. Her mother asked her why, and she said, well, no one will play with me if I go to the math blocks station at the pre-school.

So these things start amazingly young. It is a very complex issue, and I agree there is a terrific skills shortage. But there are programs. For example, in British Columbia, at BCIT, the British Columbia Institute of Technology, there are pre-trades programs to encourage young women to study in a trades area. But the truth of the matter is that for a woman to study trades in Canada now, she has to be an exceptional person; she has to have a great deal of strength, of confidence in herself as a person. She probably has the support of an uncle or father or other relative to encourage her to do this. And it's very, very hard.

We think of the challenges that professionals face—engineers, doctors and so on—but in the trades, it's really very brutal. Until we change that whole environment.... Working in a mine or on a construction site, it's a very difficult environment for a woman to survive in. Frankly, I think it takes a very strong person to cope with it.

So I wish I had an encouraging answer for you, but I don't.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Regarding the other question dealing with role models, our government has provided $1.2 million to Equal Voices, and part of that is a mentorship program. I know our goal is to see young women mentored, not just by politicians or doctors or lawyers, but also by women, like the one you mentioned who had found a niche business in caulking. It would be wonderful if these women could mentor other young women who have the interest, but have concerns, and maybe don't have the support, so they can see they have the strength to do it. I think all of us in this room have no doubt that the strength of women is there. Sometimes we all need to be encouraged and lifted up and told we can do it.

Maybe that's something we can look at together and find ways to actually locate and encourage these women who are in trades to be mentors, because maybe they don't even realize what they have to offer this discussion and to contribute generally.

I have one more quick question, if I have time.