Status of Women Committee on March 24th, 2010

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

[Rebecca McDiarmid]

We have one initiative, and that was implemented by the company itself.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Ms. McDiarmid.

We move now to Ms. Brown.

Before I do, Ms. Turner and Ms. Clarke, can you hear me?

[Ashley Turner]

Yes, we can.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

That's great. Feel free, when someone asks a question and you think you want to contribute to the answer, to just speak up.

Now we go to Ms. Brown for seven minutes.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, ladies, for being here and for participating in this discussion.

As a woman who has, in the past, been in construction and whose business deals with the construction sector all the time, I have some familiarity with some of the problems. I sometimes wonder if what women are facing today in moving into these non-traditional jobs is something akin to what our mothers and grandmothers faced during the wars, when many of them moved into the munitions factories and undertook roles that were considered non-traditional. It really was the emergence of women into many of our manufacturing facilities, and some of them never went back to their traditional roles.

May I say, Ms. Turner, that I was in Newfoundland, in Gander, a year and a half ago, and I had some very interesting discussions with the skills training office about opportunities there.

Ms. McDiarmid, perhaps from your experience, I wonder, first of all, if you can tell us what kind of timeline we are talking about since women first started in the construction industry. What kind of data do we have to work with?

[Rebecca McDiarmid]

What data do we have to work with as far as what?

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I mean data about the length of time we've seen women.... How long have we been collecting this data?

[Rebecca McDiarmid]

I'm not entirely sure, to be honest with you. I know there have been women working in the construction industry, in management roles, since the seventies. That's as far back as people I've met go.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

How old is your organization?

[Rebecca McDiarmid]

Our organization is 27 years old.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

So you've been collecting stats for some time, and we have some reliable data to work with. That's really what I'm asking.

[Rebecca McDiarmid]

We don't collect formal statistics, but we do have informal polls and anecdotes dating back 27 years.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

With the data we have been able to collect, are we looking at injury management for women? Do we have any idea of the kinds of injuries women have on the job compared to the ones men have?

What we've seen in our business is that mostly strains, sprains, and contusions are the injuries that happen on the job. Do you have any data that indicates what kinds of injuries women might encounter?

[Rebecca McDiarmid]

I've not seen any data that would indicate that there is any difference between the injuries men encounter on a job site and the injuries a woman would encounter on a job site.

I do know that over the past 35 years, the amount of personal protective equipment--steel-toed boots, coveralls, gloves--that fits women has increased dramatically. That can only be a result of the increased demand for female-sized safety gear.

While there's still a ways to go as far as full protection--overalls aren't generally cut to suit a woman--things are getting better for us, and they continue to get better for us.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

That's really where I wanted to go with this. With the data we can collect on these kinds of incidents in the workplace, and particularly in construction, is there any move you see in the manufacturing sector to accommodate ergonomic equipment for women who are undertaking these responsibilities?

When I look at, say, a woman who's five foot five and maybe 140 pounds handling the same equipment as a man who is maybe 180 to 200 pounds and six foot one, the ergonomics are different. I'm just wondering if you're seeing any pattern in how manufacturing is approaching that, given the fact that we're seeing more women going into these roles.

[Rebecca McDiarmid]

You're certainly seeing safety gear that's provided in smaller sizes. Now, whether that's specifically geared to women or specifically geared to smaller people is to be determined.

Is there special gear for women out there? I haven't seen it, except that steel-toed boots do come in women's sizes now. You see the occasional pink hard hat, but I'm not going to count that.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Is that data that would be beneficial going forward? Is that something you would recommend needs to be collected?

[Rebecca McDiarmid]

I think it would be interesting to see the differences in the injuries, if there is a difference in the injuries that are incurred by men and women on-site. That would certainly be telling, as far as the way men and women do the same job.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Ms. Turner, I wonder if you could add anything to that, particularly from the offshore oil perspective. Do you see any difference there?

[Ashley Turner]

Yes. Thank you very much for the opportunity to respond to this question.

In terms of the offshore oil industry in Newfoundland and Labrador, we are actually experiencing a lag in comparison to the west, it seems. Much of what I hear from women working offshore is that the safety equipment and the personal protective equipment is not yet in sizes that fit them appropriately.

When you look at the offshore industry in particular, there is a helicopter ride from the onshore to the offshore platform. During that ride there are survival suits that are worn by the workers, women included; however, those suits are in men's sizes. They're not accommodating to smaller people in general, and they certainly don't take women's anatomy into account when designing that particular equipment.

It is slowly starting to change, and attention has been brought to it in the past year especially. However, it is still slow to come, including proper boots and proper gloves for women offshore, which has been a safety concern from our organization's standpoint, but also for the women working in the offshore industry.

We certainly feel that doing more research on personal protective equipment, how it affects injury rates and safety in general, is something that is key in moving forward in a positive direction with women in non-traditional occupations.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Ms. Turner—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Now we have Irene Mathyssen.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses. I appreciate the information you're bringing, particularly from a woman's perspective in terms of these quite non-traditional roles.

I want to start with Ms. McDiarmid. You talked about the need for mentorship and the fact that your organization does do some. You're very persuasive. You're very engaging. Do you act as a mentor? Do you get out to the schools and talk to young women about the possibility of non-traditional kinds of jobs?

[Rebecca McDiarmid]

Yes, we've had events held at high schools. We've had events held for women at risk in the lower east side, which I've attended, to talk to people about the possibility of entering into construction.