Status of Women Committee on April 12th, 2010

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Luc Desnoyers, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

All right, could you answer those questions?

[Tom Dufresne]

I appreciate your input and your understanding of the issue. That's what we're saying. We're not opposed to dealing with it. We offered to work with the employer on some solutions, on a local-by-local basis, because one size does not fit all, right? The solution in one area is not necessarily the answer in Prince Rupert or in the north. That's why we say we need some programs.

It's like this. You can elect more women to Parliament, but if you don't show them how the parliamentary process works and give them the education and the ability to be part of the process, then you're not being truthful.

What we have to do is make it more inclusive, but also make it more friendly for women--and for men--and say, “Here, let's develop some processes”. So people can educate themselves and become better workers for the employer, but also better activists within the community.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm going to give Ms. Maryniuk 15 seconds.

[Eleanor Marynuik]

Thank you.

I just want to address an issue you had touched upon, and that is day care. If there is a need and a requirement we will definitely be looking at that. We are going to look at every avenue, at everything that is required to make women successful on that waterfront.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

I'll now go to the NDP and Ms. Leslie.

Welcome.

[Megan Leslie, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Mathyssen sends her regards. She had to leave unexpectedly and asked me to substitute for her. My name is Megan Leslie and I'm the member of Parliament for Halifax.

Welcome.

My first question is for Ms. Byers. I was wondering if you could share with us the types of programs or policy recommendations that CLC has made to the ILWU.

[Barbara Byers]

We're in early discussions with the longshore union, obviously. We have our Pacific region staff working with the union. As well, once we have hired a new director for our women and human rights department, that person will obviously be engaged.

But I want to say that there is a tremendous amount of information available to any union, whether it's the longshore union or others, in terms of what has been developed, both by the CLC and by other unions. Earlier, reference was made to the changes in the Auto Workers. I remember early on when Carol Phillips was in a video about racism and sexism in the auto industry; that was used to educate their own members. It was a very powerful video and it's probably just as powerful today.

I was part of the group on the women's committee at the CLC that--too many years ago--brought a policy to the congress that said every CLC convention, conference, or educational session would begin with an anti-harassment statement. That spread through unions, through labour councils, and through federations of labour. It's just as much part of the agenda as anything else. A host of information and educational programs are available, developed both by the CLC and by our affiliates and federations, and they would be fully available for the longshore union.

As Susan O'Donnell has said, I think it's a matter of sitting down and asking, “What's our plan?” Because there will be the plan with the employer, but then there will also be the plan that the union wants to do with its own members--both women and men.

So there is a full range. As well, by the way, this committee may be interested to know that the CLC, along with the Canadian manufacturers' employers association, is ready to launch a women in non-traditional work website. I don't think it's quite up on the web yet. It includes sites for employers on the advantages of this and why they would want to do it, and for unions, and how both can work together to make sure it happens. It will be going up shortly; last week was our last conference call on whether the site was where we wanted it to be.

So there is that whole range, and I don't know if that fully answers your question, but there is a long list of tools and processes available. It's a matter of sitting down with the women in longshore and asking them where and how we want to start and what it is that they want most now. Is it about running for office? Is it about how to deal with complaints of harassment?

[Megan Leslie, NDP, Halifax, NS]

So it could be anything from dealing with harassment to child care?

[Barbara Byers]

It could be the whole range.

Some of us have been dealing with this for, again, too many years. I remember that many years ago when I was president of the government employees union, we dealt with similar issues in a provincial government department, where we sat down with that group of workers in the building and asked what we needed to do there—because education is needed on all sides. In that particular case, it was about someone who had very offensive calendars and pictures up in his office and who thought that was fine because it was his office. Well, it was an education not just for him, but also for the whole building.

[Megan Leslie, NDP, Halifax, NS]

So it seems like this model would apply regardless of the non-traditional workforce.

[Barbara Byers]

Absolutely. There's a lot of stuff that can be applied in both places. There are some things that are particular to non-traditional workforces, but there are more similarities in workplaces than there are differences.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 30 seconds if you want to fit something in quickly.

[Megan Leslie, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Thirty seconds? No, that's okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

We'll now go to the Conservatives, with Madam Boucher.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Good afternoon, everyone. What we are hearing today is very interesting.

Unions and workers aside, this is what I would like to know. When you employ women and you want women to go into non-traditional occupations, how do you sell them those jobs? Is there a gender-based approach or do you sell them on being equal to men and say that you need such and such a kind of worker without referring to the person's gender, always bearing in mind that women are capable of doing a non-traditional job? Would you agree that, often, we have a negative image of women in non-traditional occupations? Has the time not come to change things? There is always the issue of education as well. Often, we face closed doors. Is it men who are unwilling to change or it is an issue of education?

[Eleanor Marynuik]

May I answer that?

I think it's a matter of both. It's a matter of men not being aware and it's also a matter of education.

I have come from an industry that was male-dominated. We did an awareness campaign to attract women into the industry. We made it known what the work hours were like and how these work hours suited women in being able to choose them, and what salaries were there for those positions. It's all part and parcel of attracting women into the workplace. Along with that, though, in attracting women, you have to make sure that the education is done first.

Someone pointed out that there would be no worse travesty than bringing these women into a work area where men still treat them in a harassing and intimidating manner; there would be no point. So education really is the first thing to happen in attracting more women. Then, part and parcel of that is the salary, along with education for women as to what the work is like and what the benefits are for a woman entering the industry.

[Barbara Byers]

Tom and I are going to arm-wrestle over this, but I won the first pass.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Why am I not surprised?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Barbara Byers]

I think what you're pointing out is that we need to be able to create the atmosphere where, for example, we're encouraging young women to go into non-traditional work. I sit on the board of the Canadian Apprenticeship Forum. A few years ago, we did a study for equality-seeking groups about barriers to non-traditional work, to the apprenticeship trades. That information is available. The website that I just talked about is available.

A couple of years ago, the Ontario Federation of Labour had a very vibrant conference on women and non-traditional work, and this is about changing attitudes. I remember that one of the women who got up was an electrician. She talked about not just the discrimination she got from men, but also how when she went into a work site to work on something... In the particular case she raised, it was a bank, and the woman bank manager-- and we would celebrate the fact that there are women bank managers now--didn't believe that she could do the job and sent up a male teller, who didn't know anything about electrical work, to supervise her.

So we have a long way to go, sisters, on our work, and on our work with the men as well.

Tom, you get the last little bit.

[Tom Dufresne]

Go ahead, Susan. I'll be after--

[Barbara Byers]

I see we got him--

[Susan O'Donnell]

I arm-wrestled the other arm.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You need to know that you now have only three-quarters of a minute.