Status of Women Committee on April 12th, 2010

[Susan O'Donnell]

Okay. Very quickly, my experience is a little different, because I go into a lot of places of work to help. In small communities, in mills, for instance, women want to go in there for the money, right, because it's really, really good money.

So what you have to do is go into places where women are and send women who do that work to where women are. You have to go to the local community college and say that you need to sit down together and design a course that will make women successful as welders or whatever, you have to promote it like heck, and then go into an equal pulling-in program. It's the same for men. Many years ago, we had to talk in unions about how men should be proud of being blue-collar workers. I think we need to do a program where women should be proud of becoming blue-collar workers. I've seen it being very successful.

[Tom Dufresne]

One of the women who works on the waterfront as a heavy-duty mechanic is the first female Red Seal heavy-duty mechanic in Canada. She works in the Port of Vancouver at DP World. Also, her partner was the first female heavy-duty mechanic instructor in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Dufresne. You snuck in there when I wasn't looking.

[Tom Dufresne]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I think we need to do some work as a committee, so we will not have a third round. There just isn't any time for it. We have about five minutes to go before we move on.

I want to thank everyone for coming today. Normally the chair may ask a question when everyone else has had their opportunity, and we do have a little bit of time. I'm going to ask a question because I've listened, and I think what we've done here is a he-said-she-said thing.

At the end of the day, what I wish to know is simply this. What if, as Ms. Byers and Ms. O'Donnell said, you go out there and encourage women come into non-traditional work, you give them all the information, and tell them what the pay structures are, etc., as Ms. Marynuik said, and you say to them, come on, let's get in here, you should be proud to go into this kind of job...? However, I have heard there is already an extraordinarily long list and that list is primarily male, and there are two lists. One is the union list and one is the casual list. How do you get women to go in when there is absolutely no way to get them in?

There is no room for them. As we used to say in the old days, there is this very thick layer of men to get through before they can get there. What is the practical solution to this? Because we would like to see women move into non-traditional work and I would like to hear a quick practical solution. I'll let one person from that side answer quickly, and then one person from this side. Let's go.

Tom.

[Tom Dufresne]

What we're saying is to address it on a local-by-local basis. We're prepared to sit down with the employer on a local-by-local basis and address it.

As I said, on the Fraser River, there are 286 people on the list. Eighty-three of those people are women. They deserve their chance to come into this workforce. Some of them on that list have been waiting for three years now to get a job. They've been sitting there hoping they'll get one of those jobs. Exhaust that list and then do hiring on a fifty-fifty basis.

We also participate in a thing called TranspoCity.ca, which is part of WESTAC, a group we belong to. There's a website that holds all non-traditional jobs. It's something you might want to view.

Another thing we do is to go into high schools and what have you and talk to people, as Sister O'Donnell was saying, to try to encourage not only women, but minorities and people in general. If you remember, during the dot-com craze, everybody wanted to be inventing video games; nobody wanted to repair cars, telephones, and what have you. So we had to get people interested once again in the trades, which is where the expansion of our economy is going to go, in servicing those things. We're prepared to do it. We'll sit down.

I just wouldn't want to see this committee used to get something for somebody that they're not entitled to and used as a smokescreen; I think you should feel insulted if that happens. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I don't think that's what this committee is about. We've talked to many other non-traditional workplaces. We're just asking simple questions here: how do you get women in if you have a long list? You've suggested finishing up the list as it is. That's a reasonable suggestion.

Perhaps the BCMEA could answer this, too.

[Eleanor Marynuik]

Yes, thank you. I'd like to answer that.

I think the simple answer is to abolish the lists. There is no requirement to keep those lists. If there are women on those lists, there is nothing preventing them from reapplying. As an example, Mr. Dufresne cites a list from Local 502. That list has remained since 2006. It is four years old. Why would we want to maintain that list and work off it? It makes no sense.

We at the BCMEA would want to abolish all the lists, start anew, and recruit. If those women who were on the lists so desire to apply, they are more than welcome to apply. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

But there are union members on that list.

[Greg Vurdela]

No, there are none, Dr. Fry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

No, there are none. All right. I see.

These are just people who are asking for work.

[Eleanor Marynuik]

Exactly.

[Greg Vurdela]

That's correct.

[Tom Dufresne]

The other thing, as I said, is that a lot of the office staff, if they're in the ILWU, are all earning approximately $30 an hour or more. If they're working as non-union workers for the employer, a lot of them are making about $15 an hour. So if they let them join the union, we'll improve their way of life immensely.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Mr. Dufresne.

I want to thank everyone for coming today. It was very interesting. If any of you, as I said, would like to read the Vince Ready report, which has to deal with the environment on this particular waterfront, I would ask you to look at it.

Thank you very much for coming. I'm going to suspend for one minute.

We need to get this finished today. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We're going to resume with our business. We're currently dealing with the motion.

As you know, Madam Demers had a motion on the table, which we were discussing. Do you want me to read the motion or do you remember it?

[An hon. member]

We remember.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You remember it well? All right.

However, I understand that Madam Boucher brought in an amendment to the motion. We should deal with the amendment now. It's going to be the first thing we do.

Madam Boucher.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Madam Chair, I would like to withdraw my amendment, if everyone agrees.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Okay. You are definitely not bringing it?

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Not this one.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Okay. So we're going to go right back to discuss the original motion by Madam Demers. We were in the middle of discussing the motion. We've discussed this motion ad nauseam.

Sylvie.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

We discussed it but I have another amendment I would like to make to Ms. Demers' motion, if everyone is willing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Would you like to speak to it?

[An hon. member]

Non, on ne veut pas.