Status of Women Committee on April 28th, 2015

[Nancy Darling]

They have.

It is a part of it sometimes. It's not just with the employers; it can sometimes be in the institutions as well, where women are maybe not perceived as taking it seriously. They've had comments such as that maybe they are there to find a husband more than to be a welder, and things like that.

We do a lot of work with the mentors and with our students on communication, and I think a lot of these things are about communication, being able to stand up for yourself and advocate for yourself on a job site. These are some of the things they need to know. But, yes, we have had those things reported for sure.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Having more security around that would also be helpful instead of always putting the onus on them.

[Nancy Darling]

One of the things we've heard is that if an employer is hiring a woman, everybody on that crew gets a call the night before with a heads-up that there will be a woman on site the next day. So the women have told us that when they come on site everyone says hello and then they clear a path around them. They're afraid of saying something to offend them, or maybe if the girl has really good skills they're a little bit afraid that she might take their job and they might not get picked up on the next project, and that sort of thing. So we have heard of that.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

It seems as though there needs to be some awareness worked into the industry. It's very interesting

[Nancy Darling]

One of our women said her strategy is that in the first few days on the job she tries to swear a lot so they feel more comfortable around her, and they don't feel they have to tiptoe around her. She says then she lets up on it once they accept her as one of the crew.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

That's hilarious.

I noticed on your website that the program specifically targets unemployed or underemployed females, those who are ineligible to receive EI benefits. That's great, because obviously we're targeting women who are the most vulnerable, who are having the hardest time making ends meet. How do you go in and reach these women specifically, not just girls who are in school?

[Nancy Darling]

We work a lot with local service providers and women's groups who deal with a variety of women, underserved women. We also talked to the head of income assistance in our province to see that the women who take the exploratory program are allowed to retain their benefits while they take that 12-week program.

It's very low-risk for the women who come in and try it. We tell them that it's okay for them to come in and explore trades. They're not for everybody. Not everybody who tries the program will end up saying that they'll definitely become an electrician. Some women like it, some women don't. But this is kind of a low-risk way to get women in the door. Because we pay their full tuition, there's not really any risk for to them to take it. They won't lose their income assistance benefits.

Our goal, of course, is for them to willingly let those go and to take the next step to becoming fully trained and employed.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

It makes a big difference in creating that bridge.

[Nancy Darling]

It does.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

I have some questions for you, Mr. Montpellier.

Sorry, I have to pronounce your name the French way; I just can't not.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

We've had some witnesses say that pay inequity is higher in the mining, oil, and gas sector. What steps are being taken very concretely to address that problem across the sector, across the industry?

[Ryan Montpellier]

Pay equity in Canadian society in general remains a problem. I can't speak specifically, and I don't have the statistics behind pay equity differences in the mining sector. We do very little, when it comes to compensation in the industry, as an organization.

I can tell you that there are initiatives under way to remove all of these barriers to attracting women into the sector. Pay equity is certainly an element being reviewed by our sector.

In terms of concrete plans that our stakeholders are using at this point, unfortunately I don't have anything that I can provide today.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Are there any specific hiring practices being looked at? We have heard that having HR or more women involved in looking at different things is an important part of that.

[Ryan Montpellier]

Part of our gender equity in mining project is looking at all of these barriers that may exist.

I'll give you one example. We've conducted what we call a “physical demand” analysis on a number of occupations in the industry. An entry requirement to the mining sector used to be that you had to do a physical. You had to physically go and lift a certain threshold of weight for you to enter the industry. In the seventies, that may have been appropriate, because you were moving big jacklegs around. But with the level of mechanization in the industry today, that no longer exists. In most of the occupations in the industry today you're operating equipment remotely, you're operating scoops with robotics.

We're now opening the industry where we used to have barriers to recruitment. Some of those barriers are still in place for legacy issues. We're trying to change those practices today so that there are no longer barriers in places where they may have been necessary 20 years ago but are no longer necessary today.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

Ms. O'Neill Gordon, you now have the floor and you have seven minutes at your disposal.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

I want to welcome all of the witnesses here today. Your presentations certainly gave us lots of information. We were certainly pleased to hear them all.

First, Jennifer, I agree with you that there certainly is a great need for girls to be in computer science. I really enjoyed your video giving us a real picture of how it all happens. It gives the students great initiative in terms of getting started. I liked seeing them all there and the many things you tried with them.

As well, I'm impressed by the many ways you get the girls involved with your day camps, workshops, and clubs. You're not just focusing on a certain level at school or something like that. It opens it much wider and gives them greater opportunity.

I know that Actua is certainly doing a great job all around. I'm wondering how many provinces it's actually working in.

[Jennifer Flanagan]

We deliver programs in every province and territory across the country, so 500 communities would receive our programming each year, and that covers every province and territory.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Tthat's good to hear because I don't know—

[Jennifer Flanagan]

The model is that we support university-based outreach programs, so our members are located at universities. There are 33 of them across the country. They travel out from there to deliver in rural remote communities. We also hire a team directly out of Ottawa that travels to the most rural remote communities that our members can't yet reach. We pride ourselves on being able to get into the smallest most remote communities and also servicing larger urban areas.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

I imagine the University of New Brunswick or—

[Jennifer Flanagan]

Yes. I started the outreach program at the University of New Brunswick, and I spent my first summer when I was an undergraduate student travelling around the province delivering these outreach initiatives in schools and then in summer camps. I spent a fair amount of time in your neck of the woods delivering these types of initiatives, which are very reflective of the model that would be located at the University of New Brunswick and that would travel out from there to reach into those communities without easy access to these types of programs.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

That gives them a great overall look at all that's going on, to see where they can jump into it. That's what we need, for sure.

Ryan, you mentioned some of the many barriers. At the end of your presentation, you even mentioned some of the invisible barriers that are still there. I'm wondering if you wanted to elaborate a little bit on those as well.

[Ryan Montpellier]

Certainly some of these barriers are quite obvious. I can give you a few examples.

If you look at the facilities that exist underground in some of the mines, with washrooms in different parts of the mine, historically these were not in place to accommodate women, and today they are. I won't say in all mines, but today we do have both male and female washrooms underground in certain locations.

It's even a matter of things like having the right PPE, the personal protective equipment. We saw this year on the CBC show Dragons' Den that somebody struck a deal for overalls that were now female friendly. That's from our industry, and Women in Mining Canada in particular have completely endorsed this sort of thing.

These were barriers that existed. When we're not providing our employees with the right equipment to do their job effectively, how can we expect them to be retained in the sector? It takes so much effort to attract somebody to the industry, but once we bring them in, if we don't equip them properly, they leave.

Those are some examples of the very obvious practices or policies in place that we are trying to change. There are other ones that may be less obvious, and I'll give you an example involving the way work is being scheduled. Many of the mines today offer shift work and require a 12-hour shift, and you only work four days a week. That may work for some individuals, but we have found that it certainly doesn't work for the majority of women or young men who have families at home.

So part of this project is trying to accommodate different policies and procedures or identify these policies and procedures that may be in place. The mining company may not be aware it is discriminating against women, but the result of the policy is that fewer people are interested in working for it. And part of what we're trying to do is identify those barriers and help companies address them systematically.