Status of Women Committee on April 28th, 2015

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Sometimes it's only when you bring those up that someone would really think of them as barriers and think of things that just don't exist unless you are there and see them.

As you all mentioned, another thing is that getting women into the STEM program is certainly increasing at every level you spoke about. The president and managing director of GM Canada mentioned that Ontario is currently producing more STEM graduates each year than the state of California is.

Why do you think this is so? We should be proud of them, for sure.

Do any of you want to comment on it?

[Ryan Montpellier]

What I can say, specific to the mining industry, is that we are producing a lot. If I take geosciences, half of the graduating classes of geologists are women. In fact in most schools, it's significantly more than 50%. Yet that number has not translated or made its way into the industry, so what we're seeing is that, although we are developing this talent, we're not able to attract and retain it in our sector.

Clearly, there's a disconnect between our capacity to develop the skills we need and our ability to keep them engaged in our sector. As I said, that's part of the challenge we face as an industry. It's part of some of the projects that are under way in our sector to try to uncover what those are.

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

Mr. Simms, it's your turn for seven minutes.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Merci, Madame.

To our guests, thank you for coming. I really appreciate this for several reasons.

I come from a mining area to start with. I'll get to technology later. There are not a lot of women at the mine site right now. Percentage-wise, it's probably less than 10. We do have an accredited course at a nearby college. It's called a hard rock mining course. It's basically an entry into the mining industry itself. They too have problems attracting women into that program. They've tried to do so. The company itself, which is Teck Resources Limited, has also done it. I give them credit for doing so. They're a very good company to work for.

How do you monitor situations where these barriers exist? How do you monitor success? You mentioned some of the invisible barriers and other barriers that you've identified as problems. So how do you monitor that?

[Ryan Montpellier]

Part of our approach is to build networks of champions who voluntarily participate and want to make a meaningful change in their organizations. We have, what I'd call, our fingers on the pulse of a number of labour market challenges in our sector. We survey all mining companies on an annual basis. We do employee surveys as well without the interference of employers. We want to hear from employees directly. We're constantly monitoring these metrics, or what we call our key performance indicators, as a sector.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Can you describe a champion for me?

[Ryan Montpellier]

It's either a senior-level executive or somebody in the organization such as a VP of HR, a director of HR, or a mine manager, who wants to effect meaningful change in their organization and who has the support of senior leadership to implement or to make changes to the policy of the organization. A number of VPs of mining companies or VPs of HR participate in various champions networks. We have diversity champions networks in which participants not only share amongst themselves and collaborate but are willing to open up their HR departments to their peers and to identify which practices are working and which ones are not necessarily working, so that we can have some meaningful impact and move the yardsticks as an industry instead of as individuals.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

But they're mostly champions from the administrative positions. Is that correct?

What about champions at the technical level, like the job site that Ms. Darling was talking about, and the problems her students experienced by being on the job?

[Ryan Montpellier]

I would say that it is primarily at the corporate and leadership levels, but we do have strong champions on site. There could be a mine manager with a workforce of 300 to 400 people who wants to increase the participation of women, or in some cases aboriginal or new Canadians. They have a very specific agenda to diversify their workforce. We work with them and bring in other partners who are experts in this field to help them do so.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

These people are effective agents for change, and they also monitor the program with regard to what is wrong. Do they constantly update their activities and what they're doing?

[Ryan Montpellier]

Constantly may be a strong word. We have published a number of best practices guidelines over the last decade or so. We've probably developed half a dozen reports now on diversity metrics in the mining industry looking at best practices around attraction, recruitment, and engagement in the sector. Some companies are doing a phenomenal job at this. Other companies are struggling, and are only attaining this level of diversity because of a business need. They just can't find people anymore, so they're turning to diversity.

Other people have embraced workplace diversity, and have implemented some fascinating programs and moved the yardsticks. One company in particular had a 6% female participation rate and in three years moved it to 25%. They made very concrete decisions about how they were going to do that, and it worked. Part of our role as an organization is to document that, share it with the other mining companies, and help them make a similar step, change, or innovation on this topic.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Thank you, sir. Let's hope your predictions about rebounding commodity prices come true.

It's very refreshing to hear that you're involved with the K-to-9 level. Did I get that correct? To me, it is the genesis of all things when it comes to not only the work force but in general the pride of community, volunteerism, and all that goes into what you're doing. Do you find that at that level there's apprehension towards newer technologies?

I guess it's a question for both of you.

[Nancy Darling]

I do, and I find there's an aversion to trades and tools, and to potentially getting dirty, and things like that.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Okay.

[Jennifer Flanagan]

I think one of the most effective things we have done, building on what Nancy mentioned, was around makerspaces. We have a makerspace at the University of Ottawa where parents can come with their kids, and teachers can come with their students, and they can actually use the tools themselves. I think that is such an important part of dispelling both the intimidation and the fear about what those skills would lead to in the future, because that's really what it is. It's not just parents who are unaware of the opportunities. If they're aware, they don't necessarily think that's the best path for their daughter.

I think getting them in with their kids and playing with these tools in a makerspace where they're printing on 3-D printers, using welding machines, doing die cutting, and learning computer science skills at the same time allows them to see the breadth of opportunity that exists.

These aren't just careers in which people are off in a corner or in a dark room doing work by themselves. They're very collaborative; they're very creative; and they're very diverse. The same intimidation that exists for kids exists for parents and teachers.

You can get them involved through the same types of strategies.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

You call that a makerspace?

[Jennifer Flanagan]

It's a makerspace. Basically it's a space with a bunch of different tools, machines, and computer technology that allows you to produce to different products.

You might have seen the story recently about the university students printing a prosthetic arm on a 3-D printer for a little boy. That was done in a makerspace. It was done at the University of Ottawa makerspace.

[The Chair, NDP, Hélène LeBlanc]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Barlow has the floor.

You have five minutes.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Thank you all for coming in. I appreciate it. This is a very important issue and I'm glad you're giving us your expertise today.

I wanted to address one thing Ms. Flanagan and Ms. Darling were touching on a little bit. I guess I'll start with Ms. Darling.

Coming from rural Alberta, I know there is a need for skilled labour. How do we change the perception? You talked in your presentation about the number of women in the program having gone from 7% to 13% in the last six years, which may seem modest, but I think doubling it in six years is a great start. Is part of that changing the perception? I think most of us here are of the generation whose parents said you had to go to university and that a polytechnic like SAIT or NAIT was where the not-so-talented kids went. How do we change the perception of that?

Maybe both Jennifer and Nancy could address that.

[Nancy Darling]

This is something we deal with for sure. We have found that working with the schools and working with the parents will help change that perception. A lot of it is not having enough role models out there for them to see women who have become successful. Regarding the makerspaces and Makerdays, introducing technology, coding, and circuitry is the next wave for us in our Makerday experiences with the K-to-9 system because we want to demonstrate that trades have changed quite a bit from how they used to be perceived. You don't have to be huge and physically strong, as Brian was alluding to, for a certain trade. Some of our tiniest women are heavy-duty mechanics. It's a matter of changing the perception by putting role models out in front of them.

That's what I think we can do just by showing the shift. In B.C. we have the best-educated baristas going. The people with university degrees are making our coffee in the morning and not making the big dollars in B.C., that's for sure. That's been helpful to sway the vote.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Exactly.

[Jennifer Flanagan]

Something we hear all the time is “my child will not go to college; they must go to university“. It's a conversation.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

If they only knew how much the paycheque would be.

[Jennifer Flanagan]

You make an excellent point.

I think it's important in what we are trying to do to have parent programs created by parents. Instead of trying to guess what their misperceptions are or what their intimidations are, we're having that conversation and asking what they need to hear. Pay is a big one along with financial security, job security, and job opportunity. The parents need the exposure as much as the kids do. I think we have underestimated because the reality is that girls are influenced most by their peers. The research demonstrates that in terms of the courses they choose to pursue and how they are encouraged from a career-track perspective, it is still parents who have the majority of the influence. Ignoring them in this whole process is a huge missed opportunity.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

I appreciate what you're saying. Including the parents in those makers areas, I think, is a great step. I have two daughters, and I try to get them to help me when I'm doing stuff in the basement or whatever. Whether it goes anywhere or not, I think if we as parents introduced them to that, it would help.

Lastly, Nancy and Jennifer, do you see the introduction of the Canada apprenticeship loan program, $100 million to ensure people who enter apprenticeships can carry on, as a benefit, and have you had an opportunity to ensure and promote that program to your students?