Status of Women Committee on Feb. 25th, 2021

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

I think I've given the testimony already in terms of the oversight, and it's $5 million. The administrative cost is $9 million. The FES designated $26.6 million over six years. Women, at the end of the day, are going to benefit from this, and not only women—

[Jag Sahota, Conservative, Calgary Skyview, AB]

You keep on saying it—

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Go ahead, Ms. Sidhu.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Let the minister answer that, with due respect. We all want to listen.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

It's the end of her time, so we're coming to you now, and you can ask the same question, if you would like, Ms. Sidhu.

You have five minutes.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

It's my turn.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Oh, Ms. Zahid, okay.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I will give a big thank you to the minister and officials for appearing before the committee. Thank you for all of the work that you are doing on this important issue.

I'm really proud to be part of a government that recognizes the importance of equal pay for work of equal value.

We started this work when we came into power in 2015, whereas no work had been done by the previous government on pay equity. The colleagues from the NDP and the Conservative Party voted against Bill C-86 on pay equity back in 2018.

Thank you, Minister, for all the work that has been done in the last few years on this.

We understand that pay equity standards are not yet found in many businesses, though many are working towards that. We know that this needs to change as we work collectively towards practices that are more equitable.

Minister, can you please speak to the benefits for the employers of transitioning to meet pay equity standards? How can employers evaluate their practices and business cultures today on their path to achieving greater equity in the workplace?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

I think we have to recognize the importance of supporting employers as we take these significant steps and encourage consultations to take place so that this is successful. A collaborative approach is the best approach. I believe that this provides an opportunity for employers to demonstrate their commitment to gender equality.

Now, do they need the tools? Of course they need the tools, and that's why the work of the commissioner and her team is going to be so important. It's going to foster diversity in the workplace. It's going to increase productivity. It's going to increase retention, and it's going to increase women's participation in the workforce. At the end of the day, we know the importance of that for the economy. Women's greater participation in the workforce is absolutely going to strengthen the economy. For women themselves, it's going to increase self-esteem. It is going to increase retirement savings. It is going to increase benefits. It is going to increase pensions. All these things are about to take place because of the transformative legislation that we are bringing about.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

The implementation of this legislation will ensure that women in Canada will be able to count on equal pay for work of equal value, which is long overdue for many women. We know that this inequality has had real effects on their careers, their livelihoods, and their mental well-being. As we are trying to navigate through this pandemic, we have seen that it has impacted women more than men. For full recovery, we need to have a “she-covery”.

Minister, can you please speak to how pay equity will impact particularly senior women, women of colour and minority women in Canada? In those cases, the gap is even higher as compared to men. Many of them have been impacted the most by the lack of pay equity. Can you please speak to how it will help them?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Yes. We use the figure of 89¢. This is generally the figure that we use: 89¢ is what a woman is earning per dollar compared to a man. As Ms. Bezanson pointed out in her testimony, that gap is even greater when you start looking at intersectionality and at how other layers come into force here: seniors, racialized women, indigenous women and women with disabilities. I think the figure Ms. Bezanson used was actually 54¢ per dollar.

This legislation is going to change that. This legislation is going to make that pay equal for all women in the federally regulated sector that this applies to. In addition, I think it's important to talk about the work that our government has done to further support women, and that is pay transparency—

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

I'm sorry, Minister. That is the end of her question time.

Ms. Larouche, you have two and a half minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

To begin, I'd like to thank my colleague from Saint-Jean, who replaced me at a moment's notice.

I've followed the discussions a little. There was a lot of discussion about the distinctiveness of Quebec and the fact that Quebec already has that. There was also talk about the three-year deadline.

What support could your department offer to private companies or the government to achieve effective implementation and even aim to reduce delays?

I understand that we're in a pandemic situation and that times are difficult. However, because of the pandemic, women need it more than ever. How could we speed up the process and provide better support? How could your department help?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

I will respond, and then I will let my officials speak if they have anything to add.

This is where the pay equity commissioner is so important. It is to help provide employers with the tools they need in order to come up with a pay equity plan as quickly as possible, but as thoroughly as possible. It involves the establishment of committees in certain instances, so we want those groups to work collaboratively together to come up with this plan. We are providing the support of the pay equity commissioner.

Barb, do you have anything to add to that?

[Barbara Moran]

Thanks, Minister. I would just add that the time frame was developed, as you said, to allow time for the development of the committees and so on.

As for what the pay equity commissioner is doing, she is actively developing a whole range of different educational tools and supports. In particular, there are some supports that are under development for some of the medium-sized and smaller businesses to help support them in preparing this. Undertaking a pay equity plan is exceptionally complex. Through your timeline, they will really need to be able to do a full job of it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Thank you.

Ms. Larouche, you have 30 seconds left.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Okay.

I've already mentioned that this pandemic has had a disproportionate impact on women and that the employment sector has been much more affected. The financial situation of women, particularly senior women, is precarious. Our duty is to remember that women have been penalized for too long compared to men, for equal work.

Believe me, all I want right now is for this bill to move forward. I refute the Liberals' suggestion that the Bloc doesn't want to move this forward—

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

You're out of time, Ms. Larouche.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

We're with you and want the legislation to be applied quickly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Now we're going to Ms. Mathyssen for two and a half minutes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Interestingly, it was mentioned that New Democrats and Conservatives voted against this legislation. I would like to note that it was in an omnibus bill of 900 pages—a budget implementation bill—where there were simply too many things that we couldn't support. I think that those points are potentially forgotten by Liberals, but not by the NDP.

I'd like to get back to a question that I didn't really receive answer to. Because of all the delays and because of the slow-moving legislation, is your government looking into or prepared to provide any sort of back pay or retroactive pay on the pay equity adjustments that should be received by women through this legislation once plans are created?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

With all due respect, we've been moving forward with this legislation from the beginning, with respect to the pay equity special committee and the consultations. It's critical we get this right.

I understand that everybody wants this implemented yesterday, but we have an opportunity here that we have to seize. We are seizing it. We are going to get it right because our kids and our grandkids are going to have the benefits of the legislation we are passing.

In terms of your question specifically, companies have three years to come up with a plan with their committees and post those plans. If they come up with those plans before and the plan is approved, that's when the payment starts. If they require extra time, the payment still runs at the three-year mark.

If the cost is significant for that company, it gives that company time to ensure that they can pay those funds, but those funds would be retroactive to the date of the three-year mark. This is about preserving those jobs. We don't want jobs to be lost in this. We want to ensure that women have more opportunities and more jobs.

That's the timing piece.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

The responsibility will fall on companies, but not on the government because of potential delays or the lack of movement on the regulations that were supposed to happen back in January.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

I don't understand the point about it falling on companies.