Status of Women Committee on Sept. 18th, 2024

[Shelina Jeshani]

Thank you, Sonia. It's nice to see you again as well.

The Safe Centre of Peel works on those principles of trauma-informed care. We listened to survivors who told us that they didn't know how to navigate systems, and so we took over the responsibility of navigating those systems. Survivors tell us they don't want to repeat their story over and over again and that they need someone to hold their hand through this journey—not just at the crisis stage, but throughout the journey—and so our partnership and collaboration really works from those principles of providing that integrated care so that we have a diverse number of partners that provide culturally sensitive care, and language capacity if needed, so that people who come into our centre go through one intake. They tell their story once. We're all trained in the same area of risk assessment, so we're all speaking the same language of risk.

We also know that when people come to us, they may be coming for a lot of different reasons and needs, but it gives us an opportunity to introduce other services and supports that are available and that they may not have even known about. This is the early intervention opportunity to start to dismantle some of the things they're facing. Especially for women who have been living with coercive control, when there's been a loss of self-esteem and an increase of mental distress, it's helping women understand that this is not in their head; it is actually happening to them, and deliberately, intentionally happening to them.

Through these partnerships we're able to come together, have a case conference, wrap around and really be more upstream in some of our work so that we can provide that early intervention opportunity before things escalate even further.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you.

You talked about public awareness. What kinds of resources need to be used to help with public awareness, and at what age would you recommend it be included in the school system? Can you please elaborate on that further?

[Shelina Jeshani]

Yes, absolutely.

Public awareness is key. It means having messages out there in terms of what coercive control is, what it looks like and what supports are available to help people through that.

We have very much identified in society what physical violence looks like, the various different forms of physical violence, but we don't talk about coercive control. We don't talk about coercive control to our youth as they're entering into and putting their feet into relationships. We're not trying to help them define what is healthy. When your boyfriend is tracking you and saying he just wants to make sure you're safe, what's the impact of that? What behaviour is happening, and how is your autonomy being impacted by that? Those are some of those early stages.

We also know that children and youth grow up in homes where there is violence and coercive violence. These are learned behaviours. If we don't have the opportunity to interrupt that, if we don't have the opportunity to teach boys from an early age about power balance in relationships, about the way we treat each other, about how we ask for what we need and how we respect each other in relationships, we go back to what we've seen. We go back to what we've learned.

We know that there are many things that influence unhealthy relationships outside the home as well. There is an early opportunity to address that. Many of our partners here in Peel region are part of our child witness program, which is called The HEAL Network. We work with kids right in the school system. We partner with our education partners in how we can do this and how we can get in there earlier.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

How much time is remaining?

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

You have 10 seconds.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Is there anything else you want to say, Ms. Jeshani?

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

I'm sorry, but your time is up.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Andrèanne is next.

Ms. Larouche, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank our four witnesses for being here.

This study is troubling, as I see at every meeting we hold on the subject. Current events regularly remind us how important our study on coercive control is.

Why, last May, had there already been more femicides in 2024 than in the whole of 2023, in Quebec?

The first femicide took place in the region I represent as MP. On August 31, I offered my condolences to the family at a golf tournament. The family had been offered a golf tournament to benefit the Maison Alice-Desmarais, located in the riding of Shefford, more precisely in Granby. The Maison Alice-Desmarais helps women who are victims of violence. It was very moving to meet the family of the victim, this young woman from my riding who was killed.

Next Friday evening, at the invitation of the Maison Alice-Desmarais, but, above all, of women's groups, I will be taking part in a march. It's 2024 and we're still obliged to hold activities like this to highlight the fact that women are being killed and that there's still far too much violence against women.

I'll stop here, but I could talk about this for a very long time. I have many questions for the witnesses.

Ms. Jeshani, in your opening remarks, you mentioned that we need to recognize coercive control. Where does that start? What exactly do you mean by “recognize coercive control”? Are you aiming for recognition on the criminal side, so that the system includes more tools for intervention?

[Shelina Jeshani]

When I say that, I'm referring to raising the awareness of what coercive control is and what it looks like.

We need to really invest in being able to name those behaviours, as well as naming the impact coercive control can have on women. We know there are many women who do not come forward because they say, “He didn't hit me” or “He didn't push me,” yet in these conditions that they're living under, they feel that they don't have autonomy, they don't have any power, their self esteem has been impacted and they feel they can't even manage because they continue to be humiliated and told they don't have the right or the intellect to lead certain parts of their lives.

That kind of coercive control is long term and damaging to their psychological well-being, and we need to be able to talk about this. We know that coercive control, however it looks, is usually the foundation before we start to see physical violence, including even extreme forms of physical violence like strangulation, which is also on the rise in our country.

In Peel Region right now, which includes Brampton and Mississauga, we see one strangulation per day. That is what is reported to police, and we know that not all women go to police.

We also know the Training Institute on Strangulation Prevention tells us the statistic is that a woman is 750% more likely to be killed by that man who attempts to strangle her, and the strangulation isn't the first step: The first steps are the coercive control tactics, and once that person feels they are not effective anymore, you see the physical violence coming into the situation.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much for these explanations, but the difficulty lies in raising public awareness and recognizing the situation. Obviously, this has to be part of everything we do in terms of education, right up to being able to intervene. The whole system needs to be reviewed, upstream to downstream. However, if victims don't denounce their aggressors, it's because coercive control has not yet been recognized as a criminal offence. At least, that's what I'm hearing in the field. I say this because, again this summer, I met with elected officials. I met elected officials from all parties. I met some of them from the Liberal Party of Canada at the Pride Parade in Montreal, and they told me that recognizing coercive criminal control would be extremely important to provide legal tools and the means to intervene. This is one of the recommendations of the “Rebuilding Trust” report, which was tabled in Quebec City and prepared in a non-partisan way. I'd also like to say that all the political parties in Quebec's National Assembly have asked me to include this recognition in the criminal plan.

I have 30 seconds left. Perhaps you can continue to answer during my next round of questions, Ms. Neto, but you yourself mentioned the question of legal protection. In your opinion, by what means can this be achieved?

[Carla Neto]

Before legal protections, to add to what Shelina has mentioned, it's the recognition that it exists. If the police are not trained in recognizing coercive control, they won't proceed in ways that will protect the victim and the survivor, so when we get to our court systems, if the courts don't recognize coercive control, then there is no legal protection.

That's why I'd like to take a step back. In fact, I think what we need to do is a mind shift in this country. We need to recognize that violence against women exists.

For example, when a police officer comes to an incident of domestic violence, it is important that the woman be believed. If an officer comes in and the perpetrator—or the husband, in this case—says, “Oh, she's not doing well”, “She's crazy” or “She has a mental health issue”, and the police officer is okay with that and does not proceed, we won't have legal protection, because that police officer won't act quickly. That's the issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

I'm going to have to stop you right there.

[Carla Neto]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

Thank you so much, Ms. Neto.

Next I'd like to welcome Leah Gazan. You have six minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Chair, and I'll make sure not to see your new 30-second sign.

I'd just like to thank all the witnesses so much for being here today and for the critical work that you're doing.

I have a question for Madam Polzin-Holman.

You spoke a lot about child sexual abuse. I was a teacher for a long time, and one of the things I taught in school was sexual education. I don't know if you agree with me, but why is sexual education important in protecting children from child sexual abuse?

[Wanda Polzin-Holman]

I think it's a really important question, and I agree that it is important to have sexual education taught to children.

One of the pieces that I think is really important is to look at the age at which we're starting to teach aspects of sexual education and wellness. I know that one of the other panellists was talking about providing this to children and teens when they're in junior high school or high school. I actually think it's very important to talk about sexual education and wellness at an even earlier age, for a few reasons, including to ensure that children at a very young age understand bodily autonomy.

Still, within many of our families and communities there are not the connections around telling a child to go give grandpa a hug. It's sort of forced upon a child. It's also important to give children the proper language about their body so that they can identify when abuses are taking place. Often children giving testimony don't have the right language to talk about their body and what has happened in a situation of child sexual abuse, and that creates a lack of clarity for the justice system to be able to make decisions.

I would say that it's incredibly important to do this within schools, but also to support families so that they have the right language and to support caregivers across communities so they are able to do that.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you so much.

I have a limited amount of time, and we have just the most fabulous witnesses here.

You spoke also about the offender often being known to the victim. The reason that really stuck out for me is that I know from the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls that it was often common for the victim to know the perpetrator, and in some situations they were forced to stay with the perpetrator. An example would be kids who are exiting out of care or being sex trafficked out of the child welfare system.

Why is it important for us to redefine stereotypes around perpetrators, stereotypes like it's the stranger in the dark?

[Wanda Polzin-Holman]

Yes, there is a myth out there around stranger danger. Research shows that most abuse and most child sexual abuse is committed—90%-plus of the time—by someone who is well known to them and/or someone who should be in a position to protect them.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Conservative, Shelby Kramp-Neuman]

You have two minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Super.

My next question is for you, Madam Rioux.

You put forward a petition that called for the recognition of parental alienation. This is interesting, because one of the areas of concern around implementing legislation around coercive control is that there still isn't enough understanding about parental alienation and how parental alienation is sometimes used against the parent who for very good reasons has concerns about the other parent.

Very quickly, your petition acknowledges the injustice and human rights violations currently facilitated in Canada's family courts, recognizing the court itself is complicit in its continued abuse of women and children. Can you expand a little bit about that, about parental alienation and the danger?

[Julie Rioux]

Just to be clear, we want it banned, right?

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Yes.