Evidence of meeting #128 for Status of Women in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was femicide.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Shelby Kramp-Neuman
Andréanne, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Again, I'd like to thank the witnesses for their very insightful comments.
Ms. Gagnon and Ms. Huet, I'd like to talk about potential solutions you could recommend. The Quebec department of justice recently launched an education campaign on sextortion via text. The campaign did not go unnoticed. We applauded the government for this great initiative to raise awareness. We know that ad campaigns are important for raising societal awareness. We talked about that. You also talked about online hate and making coercive control a crime.
I'd like to know what other ways there might be to address the problem. Quebec is currently piloting an electronic bracelet program. The use of electronic bracelets was a recommendation in Quebec's “Rebâtir la confiance” report. The Quebec government is also piloting a specialized court for crimes involving sexual and domestic violence. You mentioned the rapid response, or intervention, units as well.
Do you have any thoughts or suggestions to share about the rapid response units or any of the pilot projects Quebec has introduced?
Director General, CAVAC, Estrie Region, CAVAC Network
First, it's clear that co-operation works. Last week, I saw a prime example of that. It was a situation where, because solicitor-client privilege had been waived and because there had been communication with people in the justice system, actors who had power were able to do something.
Risk assessment is another element. It's part of what the stakeholders I mentioned earlier do, the liaison socio-legal workers. The fact that CAVACs, or crime victims assistance centres, have caseworkers who are trained to really assess the risk victims face has made a big difference. It paved the way for a safety-based approach with victims, an approach that Crown prosecutors can then implement.
My colleague Ms. Gagnon may have more to add.
Organizational Support and Development Coordinator, CAVAC Network
The stakeholders who are part of the rapid response units can intervene in high-risk situations. We often say that each person who works with the victim knows only a piece of the victim's story. That is why it's important to have a structured way of working together to put all those pieces of the story together and quickly put an effective safety net in place.
It's a model we feel should be applied to the entire country. Confidentiality is a roadblock organizations like ours often run into, but the model allows for confidentiality to be waived. My colleague just referred to the fact that it's appropriate to waive solicitor-client privilege in high-risk situations so that important information can be shared.
The rapid response units are made up of police officers, youth protection branch representatives, probation officers, CAVAC caseworkers, people from other victims support services and shelter representatives. They have the power needed to move quickly in order to keep victims safe.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Shelby Kramp-Neuman
Thank you.
MP Kwan, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you very much.
I'd like to focus these two and a half minutes on the issues around prevention and rehabilitation. We touched on it a bit. I wonder if we can get some further specific preventive and rehabilitative actions you think the federal government can undertake to address this.
That's for our two witnesses here today.
Director, Sexual Violence Prevention and Response Office, Equity and Inclusion Office, McMaster University
I'll start things off.
I'm going to focus on the rehabilitation piece, because I feel that so far I've heard a lot of conversation about the criminal justice approach—locking them up, and the bail issues—when we know the vast majority of survivors don't access those systems. Even in femicides, we find there may not have always been previous police involvement before the death, so I think it's essential that we take a different approach and actually work with folks who are at risk of becoming abusive, recognizing that there is a continuum of violence. We know that if someone's on a path, that path is going to go down a very difficult road and that we need to have interventions. Right now, we don't.
We tend to think primarily of men who do this as monsters or as “other”, but everyone in this room may know someone who is engaging in this kind of abusive or coercive behaviour when we look at the statistics. It is our friends, families and neighbours who are doing this. We need to have ways of creating new social norms that make this super not okay to do and to give people tools to call out their friends, family and neighbours to deal with this situation and to look at transformative justice and restorative justice.
Most people, and definitely in the university context and the students I work with, do not want to have criminal involvement. They are looking for alternative systems. I would love to see a robust program being developed in these areas. I know it's nuanced, but we can do it.
Executive director, Canadian Anti-Stalking Association
I would just add that it's deeply unpopular to fund work with perpetrators and sex offenders. It makes people uncomfortable: “Why am I taking money away from this cause to give it to a child molester?” It's because that will actually keep us safer, and I think we need to have the courage to have the difficult but important conversation about why we need to invest in rehabilitation.
Wife-beaters, to be blunt, do well in prison because there are no wives to beat. They're not actually being rehabilitated. They're being told, “Look at you. You were wonderful. Your behaviour was fantastic, so we're letting you out early.” There's no recognition of how this isn't just an animal who's violent on a whim. There was a clear motivating factor of misogyny that allowed him to behave that way. That's not currently integrated into our current corrections system. It would be wonderful to see.
To Lenore's point, finally, during the #MeToo movement in the last few years, we did a tremendous amount of work talking about who could be a victim but a poor job of talking about who can be an abuser. I would love to see some real, honest conversations about that.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you very much. I just want to say how much I appreciate both of you.
Conservative
Conservative
Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I want to make something clear. The Conservative Party believes in rehabilitation, but we have a bit of trouble with the idea of letting criminals out on bail to sit at home while they wait for sentencing.
We also believe in the importance of a thoughtful process and discussion focusing on young boys, the way they're raised, the things they're told and the cultural biases that shape their thinking.
I felt it important to make clear that rehabilitation is very important to my party.
As you know, ladies, a very sad anniversary is coming up in Quebec. By my count, we're coming up on the 35th anniversary of the École Polytechnique massacre, in which highly talented young engineering students were killed all because they were women. Back then, in 1989, I was the same age they were. It's always upsetting as December 6 draws near.
Ms. Lalonde, you spoke about the need for an awareness campaign.
On your end, Ms. Gagnon, do you think that will do anything? I realize it's not the only tool, but is awareness and education helpful?
Organizational Support and Development Coordinator, CAVAC Network
Awareness campaigns are certainly another tool to educate people about coercive control, perpetrators and victims alike. As was mentioned earlier, victims don't necessarily realize that that is what they're experiencing.
Consideration should also be given to campaigns aimed at educating those who witness these kinds of situations, to encourage them to do something. Ms. Lalonde brought that up when she was talking about the types of training she provides. We think the way people who witness these acts of violence react can play a key role in supporting victims.
It's important not only to give people tools, but also to run ad campaigns to encourage them to take the appropriate action.
Conservative
Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
I don't want to speak for the committee, but I think I know you well enough to know that you would agree with us about the importance of giving family members tools. In many cases, they see things and they know what's going on.
Organizational Support and Development Coordinator, CAVAC Network
Yes, it's very difficult for family members. You're right.
Conservative
Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
They hear things, but they're reluctant to say anything.
Organizational Support and Development Coordinator, CAVAC Network
They don't want to suddenly confront the person. They don't want to lose their trust. It's very important not to lose the person's trust.
Certainly, that's an avenue that should be explored.
Conservative
Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
I'm sure I'm running out of time.
Ms. Ferreri talked about children and violence. Oftentimes, women leave with the children and go to a shelter.
Ms. Gagnon, when it does happen, how long does it take to repair the damage done? How long does it take for a woman to put herself back together, if you will?
Organizational Support and Development Coordinator, CAVAC Network
There isn't just one answer to that question. It really depends on each person's journey. It can depend on the risk factors and the wherewithal each person already has to protect themselves.
Some victims are able to recover and move on, while others suffer the effects their entire lives. Some people experience post-traumatic growth in a very positive way and even come out better for having gone through what they did, although it may sound odd to say. There isn't a single answer I can give you.
I do want to make a point, though.
Earlier, we talked about children who witness violence and the victims. Children aren't witnesses. They are full-fledged victims of the violence being perpetrated. They aren't merely witnesses to the violence. Even if the violence isn't directed at them, they live in a climate of violence and they are victims who are directly affected.
Conservative
Dominique Vien Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
Ms. Gagnon, I got the feeling that you were treading very carefully earlier when the potential for perpetrators of violence to change their behaviour came up. I want to give you an opportunity to follow up on that.
I'm not sure what your exact words were, but you said that a perpetrator's attitude can change when police enter the picture. What we are seeing, what police are telling us and what the statistics are showing is that, in many cases, the violence in question goes beyond a single offence, beyond a single act by a violent person.
What you're saying today is that when police come into the picture, it often has the effect of reining the perpetrator in.
Can you talk about that?
Organizational Support and Development Coordinator, CAVAC Network
I'm not saying that it reins the person in. I'm saying that it's a point in time that can be unsettling for the perpetrator. It puts them in a unique situation and provides a good opportunity to refer the individual to resources that can help. If memory serves me correctly, the Longueuil police department, in Quebec, has such a process.
Conservative
Organizational Support and Development Coordinator, CAVAC Network
Police departments have resources to support victims. We work with police departments, and they too have resources for victims of violence.
However, it's also important to use their involvement as an opportunity to refer perpetrators of violence to appropriate resources. As was mentioned earlier, putting them in jail isn't just going to fix everything.
