Transport Committee on Feb. 21st, 2007

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

What evidence were you or your association given that this matter is being addressed? And you're now satisfied. On the basis of what information are you satisfied?

[Peter Boag]

Bob, can you maybe address this? You participated more directly in some of these discussions.

[Robert Mather, Vice-President, Civil Aviation, Aerospace Industries Association of Canada]

Yes, thank you.

What Mr. Boag said comes from the discussions our member companies have had with the various working groups the civil aviation administration has set up to implement SMS. There have been a number of information sessions across the country run by Transport Canada officials in which our members and others have participated, and these questions have been put directly to the Transport Canada managers who are implementing SMS. We are assured by these people—

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I understand that, but on the basis of what information are you reassured--just the fact that they are saying they're addressing these matters, or on the evidence that they have indeed been addressed?

[Robert Mather]

We're engaged with them in developing the standards and regulations that will be necessary to implement SMS in practice. So in fact—

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

So there's no evidence that.... No, I'm not going to conclude for you. Have you been presented with any evidence that concerns about cost vis-à-vis SMSs for smaller companies are addressed, or have you just been given reassurances or assurances by officials?

[Robert Mather]

It is that partnership between us and Transport Canada working with them to develop the regulations—

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

So no evidence, but assurances?

[Robert Mather]

I don't think we have any written assurances.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Okay.

[Brian Jenner]

Mr. Chairman, I could answer that question.

About two or almost three years ago now, I recommended to Transport Canada, within the context of one of the meetings that Bob was mentioning, that there be a pilot project to test SMS with small and medium-sized enterprises in the same way that SMS had been tested before implementation, for example, with Air Transat and with Air Canada.

Transport Canada accepted that recommendation and they put together a pilot project, in cooperation with HAC among others. I believe about 20 companies participated in that.

The feedback I got from the helicopter side and also the maintenance of helicopters was that it was a very productive process. The feedback I got from Transport Canada.... I couldn't tell you today who's told me anything specific, but I know the process is going forward and that we are checking to see how we'd adapt SMS to small and medium-sized companies, so it is a useful tool and not just another paperwork exercise.

I'm certainly confident that SMS is going to be scalable to small companies, and it is going to be productive for small companies also.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Merci, Monsieur Bélanger.

Mr. Carrier.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

Good afternoon, gentlemen. I was also surprised by the comments of Mr. Holbrook of the Canadian Federal Pilots Association. They confirm the concerns we have had from the beginning regarding this bill as a whole.

Your report raises many questions. You talk about forecast budget cuts and a 50% reduction in the number of personnel in a few years. What is the basis for your statements? Are you referring to specific documents?

[Greg Holbrook]

The documents talking about the reduction in inspectors refer to demographic studies done both in the public service and by the department itself that expect up to 40% to 50% of the inspectorate will be eligible for retirement over the next few years, so that creates a potential liability for a reduction because of attrition and retirements and aging.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Is this reduction in personnel due to the bill currently being studied, which would allow for a reduction of Department of Transport personnel?

[Greg Holbrook]

Those reductions in personnel will not be directly as a result of this bill. I think the initiatives contained in this bill are part of the plan by Transport Canada to deal with lack of personnel and no program to recruit and replace those individuals.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

You recommend that section 5.31, which deals with designated organizations to monitor small companies, be rescinded.

Do you expect that primarily small companies will be regulated by a designated organization?

[Greg Holbrook]

We see section 5.31 as enabling complete delegation to establish safety standards and the monitoring of compliance with those safety standards to all sectors of the industry, not just small or large operators. The way we understand it, that provision will provide for that capability to be applied without restriction to any sector of the industry the minister decides.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

In your opinion, are major air carriers already well positioned with regard to safety management. Let us take Mr. Boucher's company as an example.

[Greg Holbrook]

As reflected in our survey, 92% of our membership believes that SMS is a good concept. Our message here today is that it's the application and changeover to a different program of oversight that is the issue.

A lot of the initiatives Mr. Boucher referred to as promoting safety communication within the company are good ideas, but they're not the reason to stop doing the regulatory oversight activities that have brought us to the level of safety we have today.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here today.

Mr. Holbrook, you've presented us with a very impressive and detailed presentation. We've just received this, so we obviously won't have time to really go through the breadth and depth of all the information you're bringing forward.

I formally request, Mr. Chair, that we ask Mr. Holbrook to come back. There is no way we can get through all the information he's provided today.

To start off, Mr. Holbrook, I want to come back to the point Mr. Bélanger made around the message you received from Mr. Preuss. Do you believe it was an attempt to intimidate?

[Greg Holbrook]

I can't speak to what Mr. Preuss's intentions were.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

But certainly there was an indication that it would not be seen favourably.