Transport Committee on March 26th, 2009

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to take the opportunity to mention a couple of things and then have you comment.

I think this integrated strategy is important. My colleague talked about the fact that the previous government also had these pillars in place. Unfortunately, we didn't see anything move forward. I think it's important, as Parliament and as this committee, that we, as you said, keep the momentum going. That's what this act is proposing to do.

I would like you to comment on how the momentum can continue when it comes to economic development, specifically natural resources. You talked about a bit of a delay now.

We know that exploration is delayed because of the economic crisis. If we can proceed, as we'd like to, with this act and we do not get bogged down in more reports and regulations and red tape, where can we go, as far as economic development, for our people in the north?

[Patrick Borbey]

That's a big question.

As I mentioned, there are probably 25 projects or more that are currently under development. This is just in the mining sector. Then we have the potential that's associated with the Mackenzie gas pipeline. We have the Alaska gas pipeline. And we also have the exploration going on in the Beaufort Sea, which hopefully will lead to some future discoveries.

We also have discoveries in the high Arctic Islands. At some point the technology and the capacity will be there to bring that natural gas to market. Again, that does link into the issue of climate change and how quickly the ice cap is receding and when it will be safe to ship resources, out of the Arctic Archipelago in particular.

At this point, while we're hoping to have a good economic recovery, we are helping through the stimulus package outlined in the last budget. We're trying to intervene in some areas, to help deal with some of the adjustment, as well as the renewal of the strategic investments in northern economic development, and the creation of a new economic development agency for the north, which will also help galvanize the efforts toward diversifying the economy of the north. We're doing some of those things.

We're also continuing to try to move forward on claims. That is also an important contributor to economic stimulus, both for the first nations who settle their claims and get the benefits associated with that as well as bringing certainty to industry so they can go ahead to explore and develop a resource.

We are also working on simplifying, improving, and completing the regulatory system, in addition to the elements such as a land use plan to go with that, in response to Mr. McCrank's report. So those are some elements.

I talked a bit about geoscience. Again, the more information we can make available to Canadians about the resource potential, the better. That will stimulate some investment. I'm told that for every dollar in geoscience investment, it generates at least $100 in exploration activity.

So again, those are things we can do. Those are some examples of the federal government's role.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

I think if I hear you correctly, it's moving forward on this act. If we can actually move forward with the Arctic Waters Pollution Prevention Act, we can see some of these things come to fruition. Is that correct? That's what we really need to see happen.

[Patrick Borbey]

We will, at some point. It will help. It also helps to ensure that people understand that development and activities such as shipping will only take place under conditions where we ensure that the environment is protected.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

That's why we have an integrated plan.

I read a little bit about young people, and I think in the north we really need to provide hope. Can you comment a little bit on what kind of economic development will be impacting the young people in the north?

[Patrick Borbey]

Well, we know that there's a growing young population particularly in Nunavut. We know that right now companies are investing and looking at developing resources. These are plans that will come to fruition in five to ten years. If we can find ways to ensure that the people who are starting high school today stick to it and graduate and get the technical skills, or go to college or university, then the opportunities will be there for them. Unfortunately, in the situation we have right now, a lot of specialized or professional labour that goes into the north to work in the mines or the projects is from southern Canada, because there is not a sufficient workforce. We need to help bridge that gap. That will be a huge contribution to the youth of the north.

There are some examples, and I will use the diamond mines. One of the chiefs of the Tlicho told me that before the diamond mines opened in their territory, there were one or two young people in university, and today they have over 200. So he sees that as hope for the future. We know that the mineral is a finite resource, but we know that investing in people is not a finite resource. This is something that will continue to bear fruit.

We also know, looking at the Yukon, that studies have shown that education outcomes have increased and have improved as a result of self-government. So again, those are factors that we look at as hope for the young people of the north.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

I would imagine that protecting the traditional way of life and pride and those kinds of things are also tied in with that.

Am I all right for time? Okay, good.

Environmental protection is part of the four pillars. Some concerns have been raised about natural resources and how this will affect the environment. I'm wondering if you could tell us how the environmental protection part of this will make sure that doesn't happen and make sure the environment is protected.

[Patrick Borbey]

Certainly many Canadians and many northerners look at development through the eyes of the past. Unfortunately, one of my functions is to clean up contaminated sites that have been left by previous generations. We have Giant Mine and Faro Mine, which have left a pretty sad legacy and which we're cleaning up right now.

The system is such that those kinds of experiences would not be repeated. For example, when Giant Mine closed, they had no remediation plan, and they had no funds to deal with any of the remediation. Now I can guarantee you that when Diavik and Ekati close...a remediation plan for them has already been approved at all levels, and there are significant bonds being held by the federal government to ensure that remediation will take place. So there are measures of that nature, as we've learned from the lessons of the past. The standards have changed. Certainly we need to continue to improve. We also take every single incident very seriously. There are incidents. There are spills. There are problems that happen from time to time in production. They are fully investigated, and measures are taken immediately to deal with the issues. So we try to work very closely with the industry, but we are also concerned about making sure the government plays its role to ensure that longer-term protection.

The fact that the regulatory system is co-managed with aboriginal people is also extremely important, because that reflects values that are tremendously important to first nations and Inuit people in the north. The fact that they are now owners of the resource does not mean they will allow it to be exploited in a way that's not compatible with their traditional lifestyles and the longer-term vision they have for their communities and their people.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Bagnell.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

I just have two questions. One is going to be on CFCAS research that is being cancelled, and the other is on the Beaufort project. Before doing that I just want to make four quick comments.

Mario brought up a good point about data in the north. Anne McLellan announced $150 million for the International Polar Year, but that's almost run out or almost over. We want to make sure that the data collection keeps going in the north. And the Arctic Council is proposing a whole new body, and I certainly hope you'll be supporting that so we will have permanent data there.

You mentioned search and rescue, and DND has a big problem there because there is not a single search and rescue plane north of 60, but we're dealing with an attitude that it's their problem.

You mentioned that dispute in the Beaufort Sea was well managed. I disagree, but we'll get into that with Foreign Affairs, too, because I think it's their file.

My first question relates to the Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences. I've dealt with this in two speeches now in the House of Commons. The fact is that their funding is going to be cancelled. We're going to lose 24 research centres, including PEARL right up in the far north of the Arctic, 400 scientists and hundreds of students, all of the climate change research, the research on drought, and the research in arctic communities, on which I have all sorts of e-mails from professors.

The facilities you're putting in are great, but as someone said in the House of Commons, it's going to be like having a parking lot, because there are no drivers for the cars. There will be all of these facilities and no scientists. It may not be your department, so I hope your department, as a champion of the north, is being responsible and is lobbying to get those funds reinstated, so that this valuable organization and the research they're doing—the only research on violent arctic storms and climate change—will continue.

Do you want another question?

[Patrick Borbey]

Well, I just want to see what your question might be.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Are you going to support efforts to get that money back?

[Patrick Borbey]

Well, what I'm going to do is to implement what the government has decided. I'm completing the implementation of the International Polar Year, and that has certainly created a spike, and we knew that spike was going to create some concerns.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

That's fine. That's enough.

Let me get to the other question, and maybe you know more on this.

Around the seventies there was a Beaufort project related to ice in the north. At our committee, the last time the minister was here he talked about the pristine north, that it had to be protected for the Inuit and that even the people in his riding wanted it to be pristine.

Then he went on to talk about a third of the world's remaining oil and gas being there, or a quarter of the oil, and about all of the development and everything. But when I explained to him that scientists have explained there is no way of cleaning up oil under ice right now, and I asked him what they were going to do about that, he had no answer, even though he's a former environment minister. I know you talked about development. You're from a department of northern development, after all. So everyone wants development in your government, I'm sure. But what are you doing to ensure that the science is done so that we can find some way of dealing with oil spills under the ice and the potential contamination, so the development everyone wants can go ahead? Is there a resurrection of the Beaufort project? Was there enough in that data? Do you have more studies under way? What are we going to do about oil spills under ice?

[Patrick Borbey]

There are two parts to the answer. First, under the Arctic Council's oil and gas assessment, that certainly is an area that was considered. Everything that has to do with spills, and spills under every single condition, was part of the research that was done, and Canada contributed to it. So I think there is a body of knowledge that's growing out of that, and it's shared internationally.

Second, under the Mackenzie gas pipeline project, we have had a scientific program where we have invested a significant amount of money on those kinds of issues in preparing for the pipeline. For example, there was a symposium held in Alaska a year ago, last fall, where some of the research results were presented. A significant number of them dealt with issues of spills and how to deal with them—containing and cleaning up spills in conditions such as you described.

I can certainly make that available to the committee. I think there's an abstract, a summary of the research that was done, which might be helpful.

As I said, as well, I would recommend taking a look at this assessment, which I also think has some very, very good information in this area.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Gaudet.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Earlier, sir, my colleague remarked that the former Liberal government had had a similar initiative in place. How long do you expect to take to implement this bill and put this structure in place?

[Patrick Borbey]

Are you talking about a bill?

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Not about a bill, but about the whole structure. Several departments are involved. When can we finally assert our sovereignty and do what we want here at home?

[Patrick Borbey]

I think that is already the case.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Yes, we can claim ownership, but a number of departments are involved in the mix and there appears to be more chiefs than Indians.

[Patrick Borbey]

We have a governance structure in place. The governance committee, which coordinates efforts in this area, is chaired by our Deputy Minister Mr. Michael Wernick. All of the deputy ministers and agencies that have a role to play in the development and implementation of this strategy sit on the committee, which meets about every six or eight weeks. Unfortunately, in the public service, coordinating committees must be struck. That's part of our job. I personally chair two such committees. The first committee focuses on science issues as they pertain to the Arctic and discusses major problems, as Mr. Bagnell pointed out earlier.The second committee is more generic. It focuses on what needs to be done in the North.

Mr. Kozij who is here with me today assists me with working groups that look into specific issues. For instance, with respect to shipping, organizations and departments that are interested in a particular issue or that want to make some recommendations to the government could get together. For example, that could include the departments of Fisheries and Oceans, Transport, Environment, our own department and the National Energy Board, if need be. These are the types of actions that we are coordinating. It may not always be easy, but that's what we do.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Mayes.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the department for being here.

This is the transportation committee, and one of the keys for the north is transportation. I spent 26 years in the Yukon in the mining industry. Of course, the Yukon had the Alaska Highway and the Klondike Highway, and Whitehorse is not that far from a seaport.

Looking at the opportunity of having an arctic port and the location of that port, has the department done any work as far as an inventory of resources is concerned, and the best location for that port as it relates to activity in the Arctic Ocean or where there would be a good platform to work off, so that there would be a quick response to environmental problems or medical needs, or whatever?

Is there a little bit of a grid of transportation links that you can see? Have you put together some inventory of the resources that have been identified and then said, this is the best place for that port?