Evidence of meeting #2 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was toyota.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
That is correct.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
You had contact with Toyota Canada with respect to the floor mats how recently prior to January 21, 2010?
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
It was within weeks.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
It was within weeks, and no mention of sticky pedal by Toyota in your discussions?
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
Can I add to that?
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
As you would imagine, I was quite surprised and appalled at the fact that they were not aware of it. I did a follow-up with my U.S. counterpart. Toyota Canada's position was that it just came to them from Japan. The United States gave me the exact same answer. The Office of Defects Investigation in the United States was contacted in the same timeframe and received the same story from Toyota U.S.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Is it your conclusion that the pedal problem emerged in recent production? Is it the result of a parts lot problem? Can you make a determination like that? Or has the automaker shared their opinion on that with you?
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
We have discussed it. As far as the population of vehicles, there are a number of contributing factors, of course, age being one of them. There's not an identified actual mechanical fault besides the fact that moisture can influence the part as well.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
My experience on the assembly line, having worked in the auto industry.... I actually received a head injury at one point and they stopped the line for 45 minutes. I remember my zone manager standing over me and everyone else was screaming to get the line started again, because it's very costly.
Toyota stopped production in a number of factories for a lengthy period of time over this particular issue. This is not an insignificant problem we're addressing here. In terms of the current pedal versus the modified pedal--I was provided with a picture of this--the remedy announced...well, there are two solutions to correcting the problem, which have been presented to you. One is for anything that had already been produced and is sitting on a dealer lot or is owned by a consumer. Then there was a redesign of the pedal mechanism for anything once production resumed.
Looking at the repair for existing production and those owned by consumers, a precision-cut stainless steel reinforcement bar, as Toyota calls it--in lay terms we know that as a shim--has been applied to it.
My question, and they confirm in a document presented to me--I'm looking at it. They say on page 3, “The company has confirmed the effectiveness of the newly modified pedals that had previously shown a tendency to stick.”
With respect to this shim, can you confirm whether it's as durable a design as the redesigned pedal? In other words, are we going to be looking at a fix a year from now, two years from now, three years from now, or four years from now for those who got a repair as opposed to a redesign?
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
Looking at it from an engineering perspective, the shim does something, but it's not a moving part; it's not something that's going to wear. As far as its longevity and testing how long it will last, that is something that would need to be reviewed with Toyota. I do not have the answer to that at this time.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
To the black box issue, then, I know the technology is widely used in General Motors vehicles, for example. You're calling it a prototype. Can we conclude from this that it is not standard technology employed in Toyota Canada products, that is, it's not installed widespread across their models?
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
With respect to the prototype, the reference would be to the device to download the information from the vehicle.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
I see, but the technology itself is widespread installed in the units.
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
Yes.
Conservative
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, panel members.
Mr. Chair, this is a very serious issue. Canadians' lives are at risk.
My question to the assistant deputy minister is this. When you found out that there was an issue with the Toyota recall of these vehicles, what advice did you give to the minister, and what did the minister tell you to say when you came to this meeting?
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
The minister did not tell us to say anything. Obviously, when we became aware of the issue with the various Toyota vehicles, all that interaction took place with our department officials, with Trevor and his team, and Toyota. They had all the meetings with Toyota and made all the necessary undertakings with them. The minister's office was apprised of progress as it was going on. But no particular direction or advice was sought from the minister himself. Our officials were working under the auspices of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act, which they have authority to do.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
There are approximately 29 million vehicles on the road. How many defect inspectors do you have in your recall department at Transport Canada?
Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport
In the office of defect investigations in Ottawa we have ten people. We also have seven contract teams. These are either private consultants or university-based teams that are on a contract basis. They're our eyes and our ears in the field.
For example, with yesterday's situation, where we were following up with a gentleman in British Columbia, we contacted our team there. They do the groundwork in B.C. They then provide a report of their findings, including photographs, parts, that type of idea, and ship it back to the analysts in Ottawa.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
Do you believe that these ten defect investigators are sufficient to--
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
Mr. Dhaliwal, I'm sorry to interrupt you. We have a point of order from Mr. Jean.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
I apologize, Mr. Dhaliwal.
I just want to clarify because I've learned some information. I don't want anybody to think that Mr. McDonald hasn't told exactly what he knows today, but I want to make sure the committee knows that the minister, when he found out about the family in B.C., immediately contacted the department and asked them to follow up with the family. Somebody from the minister's office followed up with the family in B.C. to get the black box back.
I just want to make sure they recognize that there has been communication between the minister's office and the department in relation to the family in B.C., if not about what to say here today.