Evidence of meeting #9 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was oversight.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
So there's no return on that, then, in terms of the specifics of what they actually accomplish or what they do to deal with the situation.
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
Well, it's been a while since I've been anywhere near the regions for that type of work, so I can't tell you now how things are coming back.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
So perhaps it's not simply the lack of resources here, but some of the rules that need to be examined closely in terms of SMS. That's what I'm trying to get at here.
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
There's always room for improvement, really, and as we've been told, it's an evolving system and it has its flaws. It will have to be readjusted as it goes along.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
So you think it would be an important part of the surveillance activity that this would be spontaneous surveillance.
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
Oh, absolutely. I believe it's mandated by ICAO that you do no-notice inspections. I don't think it necessarily has to be--
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
So until you had filed your report on their SMS, a company would be of the understanding that you wouldn't be there to inspect them on the ground. Is that the case? If you can't do this inspection work until you file the SMS, until you go through the SMS work....
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
I understand what you're saying. Yes, we're not going to be going into a company for any reason other than just looking at their SMS, and that should be about it.
In the smaller non-SMS companies, where we traditionally did inspect and we continue to do this type of work, now what we're being told is that we don't have the time to do these anymore because we have to do the SMS function. So we're pulling away from doing that type of surveillance and they don't even have an SMS yet.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
I talk to small operators and they say that the inspectors on the ground are sometimes their best friends.
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
Oh, I hear that all the time.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Yes, so the system, when it was in place, provided.... This is my real concern with these small operators. They don't have the sort of internal size to create a culture, the transient employees who are employed in all these small companies change constantly, and in order to create a culture of safety, you need the inspectors there to provide that understanding. Was that the way it worked in the past?
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
In my experience of how it worked in the past, I was always welcome to come into the company because I would find things that they were not aware of and that they intended to fix, things that they never intended to let go off the rails.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Of course, thank you, Mr. Slunder, for your appearance here and your return to the committee. Welcome back.
I want to thank you, first of all, for your report to the committee, notwithstanding that you have some additional criticisms, or maybe some lingering criticisms, even, that in your opinion are unresolved. These are obviously for the committee to consider in regard to what--if any--further action is needed?
I do appreciate some of the positive reports as well. You note the commitment by Transport Canada to additional hiring. You have a positive note about our commitment to increased training, and to, as Mr. Grégoire called it at this committee, getting it right by building additional capacity, not just with the regulated, but with the regulator. You note positively the increased communication with labour leadership, which I agree is a positive step forward. You make positive note of the minister's announcement to take back the certification from the CBAA.
Is it reasonable to conclude that the relationship with Transport Canada in at least your group is improving, and that as a result of that, the results are more satisfactory from that relationship than, say, a year ago? Is that a reasonable conclusion to draw?
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
I can say that it's a remarkable change from a year ago.
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
It's quite noticeable.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Well, I appreciate that very much.
There's a considerable history here at this committee on SMS as an issue. I know that at least three parties are principally supportive of the concept of safety management systems, and our concern, therefore, is ensuring proper implementation of SMS as it's being rolled out under Transport Canada.
I would like to ask this for the benefit of the committee and the record. Is the CFPA principally supportive of SMS or are you opposed in principle to safety management systems?
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
We've always maintained that safety management systems is a good concept. Our issues were with how it was being implemented.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Okay. So there's some agreement in that sense. So we're not talking about wanting to see it withdrawn from the 705s, for example.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Looking ahead, can I therefore conclude that in principle you support the eventual extension of SMS, capacity permitting, to airports, for example, or, capacity permitting, capacity sufficient for compliance, to 703s and 704s, and eventually to maybe even the 702s, or at some point if the business aviation sector has increased capability to comply...? So principally you wouldn't be opposed, provided the conditions were right, to seeing SMS extended to all those others over time.
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
We never opposed SMS as such.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Okay.
I have a question for you. You've noted a demographic challenge in the future with respect to the inspectorate. Looking at the other side of the coin in terms of the industry, is there a similar demographic challenge ahead for qualified and trained pilots to fly commercial aircraft? Does that exist as well for the industry?
National Chair, Canadian Federal Pilots Association
I think it does, which will probably exacerbate pressures on us to maintain and attract new pilots.
