Transport Committee on Oct. 17th, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone.

Welcome to meeting number 6, Monday, October 17. The orders of the day, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), are a study of the national public transit strategy.

Witnesses joining us today are, from the Canadian Automobile Association, Mr. Tim Shearman, president, and Jeff Walker, vice-president of public affairs. We apologize for being a few minutes late getting started, but I know that you've presented before. We'll listen to your presentation and go right to questions.

Please begin.

[Tim Shearman, President, Canadian Automobile Association]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this opportunity to meet with your committee to discuss public transit issues. The Canadian Automobile Association is very pleased to meet with your committee early in its mandate. My colleague Jeff Walker, our vice-president of public affairs, and I would be pleased to take your questions after these remarks.

I am reasonably sure that many, if not most, of the honourable members who serve on the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities are among the 5.6 million members of the Canadian Automobile Association. However, let me take a few minutes to explain our organization and the unique perspective we are able to bring to bear on transportation issues.

Across the country, and in every region, the CAA brand is one of Canada's most recognized and trusted. Our roots go back a century to the early days of the automobile, when motoring enthusiasts would gather together to urge governments to build better roads, install proper signs, and establish reasonable speed limits. Our clubs and our national association were in fact founded by groups of concerned motorists to lobby for safer, better roads. The emergency roadside service and other services CAA is known for today came later. Public policy advocacy on behalf of our members is in our DNA.

Today, we are an affiliation of nine automobile clubs whose members rely upon those individual clubs to deliver exemplary roadside assistance, travel, insurance and member rewards. They also rely on us to deliver honest, reliable information on topics that matter to them, and to make sure decision-makers hear their voices.

The nine member clubs operate some 130 community offices across Canada and these offices are the delivery points for the visionary, community-focused work that has become CAA's hallmark in every region. By working together with a national organization, the strength of the whole becomes greater than the sum of the nine individual parts.

Here in Ottawa, CAA National works with member clubs to support and protect the CAA brand, including standards that apply to all member clubs, and the accreditation of these member clubs. Where needed, we lend our help to programs and services provided by the clubs. We maintain relations with national and international organizations outside of Canada, such as the American Automobile Association. The national office also provides public education, unbiased information, and a voice in Ottawa to our members on the issues they tell us they care about, from texting while driving to ways to economize on fuel that benefit the pocketbook and the environment to explaining new vehicle technologies such as hybrids and electrics.

The issue of texting while driving illustrates how we work. Our member surveys have identified this as the number one road safety concern of members and the general public alike, surpassing even impaired driving as of last year. As a result of what our members tell us, we have made it a priority to work on this issue. We have launched a youth video contest called Practise Safe Text; we will be convening major experts to discuss the issue next March; and we have done dozens of media interviews to publicize the issue. In doing so we are working with our partners, including Transport Canada, to reach as many people as possible.

We don't just consult our members on road safety issues. In partnership with Harris Decima, we conduct extensive member research surveys twice a year to measure issue awareness, identify topics, gather insight, and as a reality check for where we are directing our programs and activities. We survey 4,000 Canadians each time, both CAA members and the general population. The sample size is designed to be large enough so that we feel we can speak with some confidence on the Canadian public opinion in general.

Equipped with the results of our research, the national office also plays a strong advocacy role at the federal level. Past efforts have included highlighting the importance of road infrastructure, for example, and we were very encouraged when the stimulus package introduced as part of the economic action plan put such a priority on roads.

In all we do, we are informed by the opinions of our members. We are committed to building safe communities that provide mobility to all, not just to better roads, but to a better transportation system for all users. We are committed to mobility.

Our starting point here—and this will be no surprise—is our membership. The average CAA member isn't just a driver, but also takes transit, and even rides a bicycle from time to time. This should not be surprising. Many Canadians, especially those in large urban areas, use transit at least part of the time to get to work. They hop in their vehicle to run errands and ferry the kids to activities at night. And on the weekend when the weather is nice, they haul the bicycles out of the back shed and go for a ride.

That is why we like to talk about mobility. It is a recognition of where modern CAA members—and Canadians—are in their lives today.

This brings us to the issue of public transit. Mobility is about much more than cars and trucks, roads and bridges. It requires an integrated approach to transportation that includes public transit, passenger rail, and even bike paths.

Our goal at CAA is neither to put more drivers on the highways and roadways nor to tell them that they are misguided if they do not take transit or bikes to work. Our goal is choice and overall mobility for the Canadian population. Efficient, available public transit and bike paths, where they make sense, take vehicles off the road. It is a win-win situation for motorists, shippers, and transit users alike.

According to our most recent research data, 15% of Canadians use public transit as their primary mode of transportation, compared to 76% for the car or truck. The numbers for our members are lower: 90% are primarily drivers, and only 5% rely on transit as their primary means of getting around. But 31% of the general population takes transit at least some of the time, and 23% of our members do the same. Among those who cite transit as their primary mode of transportation, our members take it, on average, 2.8 days per week. The comparable figure for the general public is 3.5 days per week.

Leaving aside these statistics, the plain fact is that the majority of transit in this country runs on roads. How well it functions has a direct bearing on all road users, whether they're on the bus, so to speak, or not.

An improved system of public transit, especially in our major cities, would be welcomed by CAA members. Public transit is an important part of reaching our goal of improving the mobility of our members. They want to spend less time stuck in commuter gridlock. They want driving to be a safer, more efficient, more enjoyable mode of transportation. Public transit helps take cars and trucks off the highways and roadways to the greater advantage of both those who use their personal vehicles and those who use public modes.

We noted with pleasure Minister Lebel's recent statements that he is committed to working with stakeholders on a future plan to deliver transportation infrastructure funding to Canada's provinces and municipalities.

Based on our experience as a federation, we believe that determining the exact mix of funding, between transit, roads, and other municipal infrastructure for each community, is best left to the provincial and municipal levels.

What is clear however is that stable, long-term funding will allow for proper planning. At CAA, we always try to focus on pragmatic solutions.

In that spirit, we are agnostic on how the federal government should deliver its share of transit funding. What is important is to achieve the goal of stable, multi-year funding so that funds can be best spent.

We would also ask the government to ensure that its criteria for funding give the provinces and municipalities leeway to invest in longer-term projects. For instance, at CAA we are working with researchers at the University of Calgary and the University of Toronto on so-called intelligent transportation systems that marry roadway video, transit information, GPS, and sophisticated modelling to plan the best possible traffic flow for all users. This allows government to squeeze more volume per kilometre of road, an efficiency that is good for the economy and for individual users.

In closing, I have one more reference to our members' data. Fewer than half our members rate the state of public transit infrastructure in Canada as adequate or better. The actual number is 46%, compared to a barely better 52% among the general population. Surely as a country we can do better.

As a federation of nine clubs, we understand very well that one size does not always fit all.

We know that transportation infrastructure is an area of shared responsibility. We note again Minister Lebel's commitment to hold up the federal government's end of the bargain, and we stand ready to assist this committee in any way we can in its deliberations.

Thank you for the invitation and the opportunity to speak, and we welcome the committee's questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to Mr. Nicholls

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My thanks as well to Mr. Shearman. I also wish to thank your organization, of which I have been a member in the past. I used the association's services on several occasions.

You talked about awareness-raising campaigns regarding texting while driving, and road congestion. Rather than investing in awareness campaigns or new roads, should we not be promoting public transit? This would be to the advantage of drivers as it would offer them an alternative. They could use digital technology on the bus rather than trying to do so while driving. The same goes for the congestion issue. Public transit is a more effective way to move people, and it clears up congested roads.

You talked about an integrated approach to public transit. Do you believe that the federal government has a role to play in planning that integration through a national strategy?

[Tim Shearman]

Thank you for the question.

Certainly the federal government has a role. As we know, funding for some of the infrastructure comes through the federal government through gas taxes and what not, but we found in our federation, much like in Canada, that a lot of the expertise on the transit and roadway use comes from the local level, the provincial and municipal level. We have experts in our clubs who work with their local governments, and we support them with data to help them with their local governments.

So yes, there is a role, we believe, for the federal government, but I think the decision-making for the most part rests with the local municipalities, because one system that works in Winnipeg, for example, will not be the same that will work in Vancouver. We've seen different infrastructure investments in the different provinces. As we see in Montreal, obviously there's a high priority on bridges and viaducts and what not, which would be quite different from Edmonton or Calgary. So we really need the local governments to be involved in that debate.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Do you not believe that by having a national forum there could be a sharing of best practices, perhaps, that for viaducts and roadways maybe one agency could share with another agency, one agency in Montreal could share with an agency in Vancouver, not necessarily to use it as a template, but to use it as a way of informing a better strategy?

[Tim Shearman]

Yes, we'd certainly support that. We act in much the same way with our issues. We meet with stakeholders across the country; we engage people in best practices. For example, we mentioned this conference we're having in March next year on distracted driving. We'll invite experts from all over Canada and the world to meet together to talk about what they're doing in their territories to help educate drivers on distracted driving.

So yes, we'd certainly support that.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

I have a very easy question for you. Is it safer to text while driving a car, or in a bus or train?

[Tim Shearman]

As long as you're not driving the bus or train, it would certainly be safer in there, yes, without question.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

I'll give my time to Ms. Chow.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Thank you.

I tabled a member's bill on a national transit strategy. The bill tries to ask the federal government to take a leadership role to bring different levels of government and transit authorities together, different stakeholders, and say what a long-term plan would be. It's not that the federal government would predict--it shouldn't, really. So the stakeholders would say what the long-term plan should be, and from there they would have a discussion as to who pays for what, so that there is a very clear delineation. That kind of strategy seems to have been lacking in the past.

The federal government in the last two years, of course, has been putting in money--both to the gas tax and the capital budget--but not bringing in as many people as possible. I don't see any downside to it, as long as it's not one size fits all. That's not what it's supposed to be.

I just want your comment on what you think of that initiative. Is that something you would suggest? Someone needs to bring people together. That's what I think the federal government's role should be.

[Tim Shearman]

I'm going to ask my colleague Mr. Walker to speak to that, because he was involved in instances like this in his former life. Maybe he can shed some light on that.

[Jeff Walker, Vice-President, Public Affairs, Canadian Automobile Association]

It's always a fine line in these kinds of things when you pull together groups of people or stakeholders. If you're setting the agenda and telling everybody what that agenda is going to be, that has a certain impact on the outcomes. I can tell you that we run a federation at CAA, and it's a lot like the Canadian federation, in that as soon as we try to set that agenda or push agenda items on everybody, we end up in trouble. So we end up somewhere between facilitator and enabler in our day-to-day practice.

I think what we would say is that in this space, if there were a way to structure somewhere in that facilitation or enabling role, or maybe even it's a third party that organizes it with everybody at the table so there's no sense of the power relationship there on the ground.... Because obviously the federal government has the most money to put on the table, there's a natural likelihood that people may feel like they should defer to the federal government, and that may or may not be the right approach.

One way or the other, there is absolutely a value in sharing best practices. Really, I think the question is about—and I think we at CAA think this—who should organize it, who should set that agenda, and even how it should be funded. As long as those things are done in a collaborative way in some fashion, then to us there's value in that kind of thing.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I have some time, but I'll come back to this, because three minutes are probably not enough to explore it in. But I want to push that—

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Ms. Chow, I'll ask you to come back to it in the next round.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

In the next round? Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Monsieur Coderre.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you very much. Thank you, gentlemen, for being here today.

Unlike Mr. Nicholls, I have not used my CAA membership card very often, as I never forgot my keys in my car. However, I certainly recognize the importance of your services. You publish splendid, very interesting atlases and they make very nice Christmas gifts.

But seriously, with all of our witnesses—and I am pleased that you are here—we talk a lot about public transit and having a national strategy. But I always get the impression that people are saying that the car and the bus are mutually exclusive. That is one perspective we hear about.

I am happy to hear your comments today, because basically you are saying that one can benefit from public transit while owning a car. Practical reality is important in a national strategy. That is the relationship between the individuals and the services they access. This is the approach I'd like to explore with you today.

Everyone needs money. Currently, there are issues of governance, mobility and the sustainability of infrastructure. For instance, bridges in Montreal are attracting interest because they are falling down. We don't have a choice. Since we don't want them to deteriorate any further, we have to deal with them.

Since you also have to deal with the federation—we put up with it as well, and someone from Quebec could write books on the constitutional aspect of things—what do you think should be the first rung of a strategy? Should we come up with a governance structure involving the various jurisdictions, or should we begin first of all rather by trying to understand each other? I am talking about drivers and public transit users.

Can we chew gum and walk at the same time?

[Tim Shearman]

There are two different parts to that. The first part is what we should do at CAA. What we like to do is--I'll coin a phrase that Mr. Walker uses--to be an honest broker. We work at bringing people together to share ideas.

There was a recent example of this last May, when we held what we believe is the first bike-car conference. In Vancouver, we brought national cycling groups together to discuss their issues specifically, because Vancouver, as you probably know, has had a recent investment in infrastructure to add more bicycles to the road, and along with that has reduced a number of lanes in certain areas. There's quite a municipal debate on that.

We stepped into that debate to bring people together, not to give our opinion, but to get together in a room the best people who know about the impact of the bike and the car. Similarly, we would see our role as the same thing in terms of public transit. We have been involved at the local level in public transit. Metrolinx in the GTA is an example.

From the federal government's perspective, again, I think communicating with the provinces and municipalities, providing them the research that organizations like ours can provide, and providing them the best tools to make those decisions is probably the best role for us, rather than saying specifically where the money should be spent.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Shearman, we have to put a strategy in place and do things differently. We have to take the environment into account as well as quality of life. Do we not need to reinvent the way government works, whatever the operative strategy? The government that is the closest to the people is always the municipal government. Funding has to be taken into account as well as the Constitution, because the municipalities are creatures of the provinces, under the Constitution.

How does the CAA see that situation? Your organization has a vast experience of the country and has a strong relation with its affiliated organizations. We are all in agreement on public transit. The first thing we should do to set up a national strategy should be to reinvent the way in which the Canadian government works, in particular with cities, don't you think?

[Jeff Walker]

To be honest, I'm not sure that we agree with that. I'm not sure that we're at a point where we believe, certainly, at CAA that we have to fundamentally rethink how government works with cities.

The Building Canada fund has worked pretty well, from our perspective. We think the stimulus spending, broadly speaking, was hugely beneficial as well, with a few things we wish had been done a little differently.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

So how can you manage to have a dedicated fund if it's not federal business, regarding the role with municipalities, for example? We've done it. We proposed it at the beginning, and it became permanent with the gas tax. But how can we manage...?

The name of the game here is efficiency, right?

[Jeff Walker]

Right.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

And it's the same taxpayer money. How can we manage to make sure we can talk about infrastructure and at the same time focus on the necessity of having better public transit for everybody?

[Jeff Walker]

I guess what we at CAA would say to that is that it really comes down to what the definition is of the word “strategy”. How prescriptive do we mean when we say we have a strategy?