Transport Committee on May 30th, 2013

[Stephen Taylor]

As I understand competition, when competition is allowed to flourish, costs go down and quality goes up.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

And quality goes up.

[Stephen Taylor]

That's probably in the first chapter of any economics textbook.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Yes.

I would suggest, given the objections of the NDP a minute ago, it would serve them well to pick up a basic economics textbook 101 and begin to read it. This is simply basic economics that we're talking about here.

You mentioned that it's getting worse, so fewer and fewer workers are able to participate in, if we take the oil sands example, the bounty of what we have out in western Canada. I imagine that can't be a good thing, can it?

[Stephen Taylor]

If the federal government is to allocate, bring it within the scope of the federal government and its building Canada fund, the infrastructure dollars that are going out, those dollars simply won't go as far on those projects. That leads to fewer hospitals, fewer schools, fewer roads, and the rest. When you have fewer dollars left, or fewer dollars.... If you are looking to build 10 projects and closed tendering allows you to build only seven, that's the result right there.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Do many—

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Your time has expired, Mr. Adler. I know you're on a roll, but we now have to move to Mr. Stoffer.

You have five minutes.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Chair, I must say it's an honour to be among a group of esteemed parliamentarians today.

First, I very much want to thank Mr. Clements for his service to our country as a military person. Thank you very much for that, sir. I congratulate you. You should get your third bar pretty soon, so we don't confuse....

When you go back to Fort McMurray, perhaps you could give a big hug to Frances Jean for me. She's Brian Jean's mom. She's fabulous, so if you wouldn't mind.

[Scott Clements]

Yes, absolutely.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Adler was kind enough to say that we should take an economics lesson, and I'd like to give him one right back. In 1998-99, the provincial Liberals were running in Nova Scotia, and they promised that they would build schools through a P3 system. They built 23 schools with three different contractors. All those schools were paid for within seven years of completion. The Nova Scotia taxpayer now still has over 20-something years of paying for those schools.

The Liberals put that in. The PC government under John Hamm got in and cut that immediately, knowing full well the extreme high cost of those schools down the road. At the end of it all, we're going to get those schools for $1 and they probably won't be worth anything. So it doesn't mean that a P3 system, where you go to a public-private partnership, is necessarily always successful.

Waste Management Inc., now in Nova Scotia, controls all the waste in Nova Scotia. When that was privatized, the cost skyrocketed, and it's still skyrocketing, because of the long-term objections to it. So it's not necessarily that the private sector does everything perfectly.

One last thing about unions, Mr. Taylor, is that Polar Seafood had three fish plants in P.E.I. They were going to shut down two of them and keep one open. The one they kept open was the unionized plant. Why? Because the workers were organized. The workers had an investment in that plant, and the company kept that one open because they had a very good relationship with those unionized workers. So yes, there are examples of where unions do very well.

But my question for both of you is this. I find that one of the most frustrating things in this country is that we have 10 provinces and three territories and we put up walls among ourselves. Isn't it true, in your opinion, that one of the major costs of infrastructure and infrastructure concerns is the lack of mobility for workers in all sectors? These provincial trade barriers that we put up among ourselves are historic in nature, and I don't blame any government for that. They've been around for a long time.

If we could knock down some of those barriers and move to something more uniform in terms of regulations, in terms of taxes, and in terms of mobility of workers, etc., would that not bring down the cost of all of this and then open up competition? For example, a firm in Manitoba could bid on something in Nova Scotia. A firm in P.E.I. could bid on something in Alberta. Would that not bring down the cost in some regards?

I thank you both for coming.

[Stephen Taylor]

Thank you for your question.

I'm all for knocking down interprovincial trade barriers, and where harmonization between provincial regulatory regimes can be accomplished and agreed upon, I encourage those discussions. Thank you for asking a question I can agree with.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you.

My last question...what was it? I'm forgetting my own question.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Oh, yes. Sorry.

Mr. Clements, this is about the airport authority of Fort McMurray. In Nova Scotia, the Halifax airport has a 70-mile radius around it, such that no other commercial airport can operate in that 70 miles. Do you have the same thing in Fort McMurray?

[Scott Clements]

I wish I had—

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

You don't?

[Scott Clements]

—but you have to remember that they're not commercial airports. They're private airports.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

I realize that—

[Scott Clements]

That's the key.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

—but do you have it in your airport authority regulations that no other commercial airport can operate there?

[Scott Clements]

I'm sure we don't.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you very much.

Again, I hope you have a great night tonight.

Thanks, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

You have a minute left if one of your colleagues wants it.

Go ahead, Mr. Sullivan.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Clements, one of the things you've talked about is that the Province of Alberta started to build a kind of infrastructure strategy or a strategy for growth, essentially, for the region, and without any money, because the budget is backing away. If we were to spend federal, provincial, or municipal money on infrastructure, would it be advantageous that there be a long-term strategy attached to it, whether it's federal, provincial, or municipal?

[Scott Clements]

Absolutely.