Transport Committee on Nov. 5th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

We're now going to move on to Mrs. Kusie for five minutes.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Again, thanks so much to the minister for being here today.

Minister, I'm going to go back to one of the questions of my colleague on this committee as to the timing of the plan, which I'm a little bit confused by. The media today—it was actually Reuters, my apologies from before for not clarifying the right media house—did indicate that this is impending and will arrive within days. It gave me, as well as I'm sure many airline sector employees, incredible hope. What I'm hearing from you now is that you're not certain or you're not willing to provide information as to when this will be.

My colleague, Mr. Kram, asked if we would see this by the holidays. You said you have talked to many stakeholders. I have also talked to many stakeholders within the airline sector over my time as shadow minister for transport. They are telling me, Minister, that if they are not up and running by the holiday season, and of course leading to spring break, this is the end of their corporation and perhaps the end of the airline sector.

I'm really looking to you for some type of assurance as to when we can see this support. As I said, according to the media, this is any day now. I was so happy to read that and so happy for the dozens of airline employees and airline individuals who have been contacting me.

Can you please, again, try to provide me and the sector with some comfort as to when we can expect to see this support, which I will remind you we have been waiting eight months for?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I'm aware of the article as well. I read it this afternoon. Far be it from me to cast any aspersions on the media, but I believe they quote a number of unnamed sources. I have no idea who those sources are. I think it is probably worth being careful about interpreting some things such as time frames. I can't say any more than that, but I can assure you that I was not interviewed for that article.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Minister.

You know what they say: If you read it on the Internet, it's most certainly true.

Minister, I'll return to two assurances I asked for, and unfortunately did not receive, within my first round. Again, those are regarding the workers, the airline employees. Can you please commit that this sector support, when it is given, will assure that there are no further layoffs?

Second, as I asked and as my colleagues across several parties asked, can you assure that within this sector support, within this plan, consumers, passengers, will be finally reimbursed?

I asked you in the first round. I was really hoping to get some assurance for both the employees of the airline sector, who are clinging to their jobs, hanging onto their jobs, hoping to ride out this difficult situation, and for the many Canadians who are looking at their Visa bills or Mastercard bills with charges of $1,000, $3,000, $5,000 or $10,000 from long ago for these flights and who need to be reimbursed. Are you able to provide any type of comfort or reassurance at this time regarding workers or passengers?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Ms. Kusie, hats off to you for your persistence in asking the question. Unfortunately, as you know, I cannot give you specifics at this point, other than to tell you that I'm very, very aware of the two points you raise, one with respect to the protection of workers and the other with respect to passengers who would like to be reimbursed. I can tell you on the side that many of those passengers have written to me, so I'm extremely aware of the fact that they're not happy with the current situation. We are taking those things into consideration as we try to elaborate on a program that will address the air sector.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Ms. Kusie.

Mr. Sidhu, go ahead, please, for five minutes.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll be sharing my time with Mr. El-Khoury.

Minister, thank you for being here today. As you know, I'm a big advocate of electric vehicles and charging infrastructure. I appreciate the additional resources for the incentives for the zero-emission vehicles program. This program will provide the residents of Brampton East, my riding, cleaner transportation solutions and reduced pollution, while helping to meet Canada's zero-emission vehicle sales targets.

I want to talk about the air travel sector. I know the wage subsidy has helped many in the air travel sector to keep their workers on the payroll during these challenging times. Speaking more about the air travel sector, can you comment on the importance of air travel for a large country like Canada, please?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Yes, it would be my pleasure to speak about that because I feel very strongly about it.

I believe that the air sector is extremely important to Canada, and not only for the obvious reasons that people often bring up: that it allows us to travel for business, for tourists to reach destinations, for families to be reunited. Those are all the obvious points that are brought up, but let us remember that Canada is the second-largest country on earth. In some cases, there are no other practical options, and I think the air sector, even though it is sometimes maligned, plays a critical role in terms of unifying us as a country, because it allows us to see each other and to communicate with each other face to face. That is something that we may have taken for granted but is extremely important. It's a bit like the railway at the beginning of Canada as a young nation, which suddenly allowed us to reach from one end of the country to the other end of the country.

It's important for sovereignty reasons as well. I would like to think that a Canadian could get on an airplane in Canada and pretty much reach almost any other part of the world, instead of having to depend on going across the border to catch a flight or to go to another spot in Europe to take another flight to get to their final destination. I'm reminded of the tens of thousands of people that the airlines brought back to Canada at the beginning of this pandemic. We brought them back because we had the ability to do it, because we had airlines that could provide that.

Finally, I want to talk about and tip my hat to the smaller airlines that serve the north, the regions of the country that have small communities, sometimes in very remote areas, and that absolutely have no other alternative but to receive their support that way, whether it's for medicines, whether it's a doctor coming in, whether it's food or whether they need to be evacuated for hospital care in a larger centre. There's no question; the air sector in our country plays a critical role for this country.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you for that, Minister.

I'll turn it over to Mr. El-Khoury.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. El-Khoury.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Minister. We are pleased to have you with us. I think all Canadians recognize the great and heavy responsibility that rests on your shoulders.

I've had several conversations with you. I am extremely grateful to you for taking my concerns into account, including the need to ensure the safety of my fellow citizens and to guarantee them services. I know that this is important to you as well, and that you will do your utmost to secure the jobs of all those who work in the airline industry. We're very pleased about that, Minister, and we thank you for it.

I have a question for you. The Prime Minister has pledged $41 million in emergency assistance to Canada's northern airlines to maintain services to remote communities. Can you please explain the importance of allocating those funds to this region?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Thank you for your question, Mr. El-Khoury.

As you know, the pandemic has hit the airline industry hard, including small airlines serving the north and remote areas of our country. Without passengers, they have no revenue and hence cannot continue their operations.

We recognized that it was essential for these small companies to be able to continue to operate, so that they could provide remote areas with goods such as medicines and food, as well as bring doctors to these areas. We are talking about 140 locations in northern Canada. The government needed to provide funding to help keep the small companies serving remote areas going.

We worked with the provinces and territories. Costs are shared between the federal, provincial and territorial governments to ensure that these companies have enough revenue to continue to provide these essential services. It's absolutely necessary.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Does the Quebec government—

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. El-Khoury. The five minutes has lapsed.

Minister Garneau, thank you for your time here today and thank you for taking on all these questions from everyone. I understand that you have to depart the meeting right now, and we're going to move on to questions with your officials. Once again, I want to thank you for your time today.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thanks to all the members.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you.

We'll take a two-minute pause and get everybody ready here, primarily those on board with respect to the officials.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

We're going to start off with Mr. Shipley.

Mr. Shipley, you have six minutes.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll direct these questions towards Deputy Minister Keenan, please.

Mr. Keenan, due to COVID-19, Canadians have lost millions of dollars in cancelled plane tickets. Airlines are currently providing vouchers for future travel, but vouchers don't put food on residents' tables. Many Canadians believe they should be reimbursed for their airfares. The CTA has yet to address many of the 10,000 complaints they've received from Canadian consumers demanding reimbursements for flights cancelled due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

What is your department's plan for addressing this issue of travel refunds as vouchers are not sufficient?

[Michael Keenan, Deputy Minister, Department of Transport]

As we've seen over the past hour with the questions to and discussions with the Minister of Transport, this is an area of significant discussion and significant work. It is one of the key issues in the air sector, and there's a significant impact on Canadians.

I'd say two things. In terms of whether, under the current system, passengers are entitled to refunds that they have not yet received, this is under the jurisdiction of the Canadian Transportation Agency. There have been a large number of complaints filed and the CTA is looking at those, but questions would have to be addressed to the CTA.

In terms of the government's response to the crisis in the air sector, including the outstanding refunds, it's difficult to really add any more than what the minister said over the last hour.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you.

A situation was brought to my attention just last night involving some of the smaller, more regional airports. Their operating costs are usually divvied up amongst many different commercial airlines. Some of those are no longer flying out of those regional airports. The operating costs are still the same for those airports. They're now dividing those costs up amongst the smaller remaining users of the airports, such as charters or private planes or even, quite frankly, some government aircraft. One example of those costs would be for snow removal. The bills are getting quite significant for these smaller users. They're already suffering. A lot of these regional lines service the north and are much needed.

What's being done to help the airports absorb some of these operating costs and not just pass them on to the smaller airlines that are still trying to get by?

[Michael Keenan]

The member raises a really good question. In the process of understanding some of the extreme impacts on the sector and advising the government on options for addressing them, the department is in pretty well constant contact with a wide range of air operators and airports. We have seen exactly the dynamic the member is describing. Airlines are incurring large financial losses, extremely large financial losses. Airports are as well. Airports have to stay open, and they have fixed costs. The snow has to be removed whether there's a full slate of flights or a very reduced one. We are very conscious of the impact on airports. We're working closely to understand them, to make sure that those harsh realities are reflected in the analysis and the discussions that are under way.

It's hard to say much more than that at this point, other than that the member is exactly right in terms of the very difficult dynamic a lot of small and regional airports are facing.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

It's nice to hear that you are at least aware of that. I think that is definitely a very pressing issue that needs to be looked at quite quickly, because a lot of these airlines are servicing passengers up north and the airlines are all those people have left to get them their services. Thank you for letting me bring that to your attention.

I'd like to move on to rapid testing, Deputy Minister. Based on the Coutts land border crossing and the Calgary International Airport rapid testing pilot trials, when could we expect to see some results of this program?

[Michael Keenan]

Thank you for the question. Again, it's a very important question and a very important issue.

Increasingly, you can see that particularly in air travel. There's also the goods land travel, but in the air travel system, the world is edging its way towards some kind of system where testing will be a part of international air travel. We're working closing with ICAO and we anticipate seeing a bit of blueprint come out of ICAO in the next few weeks. In Canada, there are three sets of pilots under way.

One of the really interesting ones is the one the member referred to, the one in Alberta at the Calgary airport and Coutts. Those pilots are going operational literally this week. I think they have been operational for a few days. We're watching them very closely. We're working very closely with the Province of Alberta, and the federal government, Transport Canada, the Public Health Agency of Canada and Health Canada are working really closely. We are hopeful that we will see in those pilots some success factors that can be built on for a broader testing system that can eventually come into place in Canada.

There is a second pilot that is happening in Toronto with Air Canada, the Toronto airport and McMaster. It's a different kind of pilot, but it's creating a good baseline to understand, for international arrivals, what the infection rates are.

There is a third pilot in Vancouver, which is actually, on a pilot scale, looking at predeparture testing so that passengers outward bound from Canada can head to an international destination already having had a negative COVID test.

We're working very closely with our partners in monitoring these pilots, and we hope to learn from them to create options in terms of moving forward with operational testing at the border in the air mode. Our cohorts at CBSA are working closely to consider options in the land mode.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

I can see the chair talking, but he's on mute. I don't know if he's telling me that my time is over.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

I haven't done that in a while, so thank you.