Transport Committee on Nov. 5th, 2020

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today and answering all our questions.

As you referenced, there are additional resources for the zero-emission vehicle program in the supplementary estimates (B). In fact, a considerable increase is called for—apparently, some $52.8 million for the funding of this program—in addition to the $58.5 million requested in this year's main estimates and the $47.8 million already approved in the supplementary estimates (A). It sounds like this program is going to be expanded.

I know that when Ontario had a similar incentive program, many of my constituents took advantage of that, and it proved to be very popular.

Could you tell us—quantify for us, in essence—what you're seeing as the results of this program since it came into force? What sorts of progressions are you looking at, or what kinds of numbers are you looking at over the next couple of years?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

As you will know, half of all the greenhouse gas produced in Canada within the transport sector comes from light-duty vehicles or cars, which is a quarter of all greenhouse gases produced in Canada. It's a significant producer. We are committed to encouraging the transition from internal combustion engines to zero-emission vehicles.

The incentive program we put in place a couple of years ago has been incredibly popular. We want to continue to build on it, and that's a question of building momentum. That's why we're also, in parallel, building charging stations.

First, our goal is that, by 2025, 10% of sales of vehicles will be zero-emission vehicles. By that time, the prices will also be much closer to each other as prices come down for zero-emission vehicles. Second, we'd like to reach the 30% target by 2030 and 100% by 2040. That's what we're aiming for.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Could you also then describe to us what you see as the effect on the environment in terms of the actual emissions? Obviously, this is part of our fight against climate change. Do you have some idea of what the impact will be of this increase in sales?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Thank you for the question.

These vehicles are going to play a significant role in helping Canada reach its targets, as light-duty vehicles currently account for, as I said, 50% of Canada's transportation emissions. Transport Canada estimates that the average new ZEV can save 3.4 tonnes of emissions each year, when compared with the average new internal combustion vehicle.

I will add the caveat that the recharging of those vehicles, obviously, should be coming from a clean source of electrical energy. That's also a requirement, and overall, from a government point of view, we're moving towards electrical energy that is clean energy.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Minister, you mentioned charging stations. As someone who's pretty new around here—since 2019—I'm still a little confused as to exactly who does what. In terms of that type of infrastructure, what is the role of the Department of Transport as it relates to providing assurance that there are sufficient charging stations?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

That's a very good question. It can sometimes be confusing, which department is responsible for what. The building of charging stations is actually under Natural Resources Canada, Minister O'Regan. He has the funding to build charging stations, to build a network across the country. We've put a significant amount of money into it.

I will also add, to give them their credit, that some provinces are also investing. My own province of Quebec, for example, has spent money to build up the charging network in the province. It also has incentives for the purchase, as does B.C.

It's a team effort here. The more we get involved with this, the better our chances of meeting our climate change goals and our ZEV targets.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

One question that I think a number of people have, as we have more zero-emission vehicles out there, is what the potential is for used vehicles. Is there any potential for resale incentives of these particular vehicles?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I'm glad you asked the question. It is something we are looking at, now that the base is beginning to grow. At the moment, roughly 3% of light-duty vehicles in the country are ZEVs. As time goes on, there will be a market for used vehicles. We are looking at that. We haven't reached any decisions with respect to used ZEVs, but it's potentially an area that we might address.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Are there any other areas that are part of the program, particularly as you're looking at zero-emission vehicles, that you would like to elaborate on?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Roughly 30% of transport-related greenhouse gases come from heavy-duty and medium-duty vehicles—in other words, light and heavy trucks. That is going to grow because we're the second-largest country on earth, and a lot of merchandise moves by truck.

There is potential in the early years for us to move towards zero-emission vehicles in the light and medium truck sphere, and also for trucks that do short distances, those that work within cities, that kind of vehicle. There are, in fact, companies in Canada now that are focused on zero-emission medium-sized trucks. There's a very promising future there. That is an area we hope to put more and more emphasis on in the coming years.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, you have seven minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for being with us today. We miss you at the committee. We would like to see you more often.

I'll start by asking you questions about air travel.

You know that this sector is going through a huge crisis right now. Unfortunately, we have the impression that nothing is happening at the Department of Transport. For the past nine months, a crisis has been going on in the airline industry, and people in distress are calling us to tell us that they are losing their jobs and they are asking the government for help. Yet, while everywhere else in the world help is being provided to the airline industry, here the minister seems to be sitting on his hands. You do consultations, and you wait.

We have heard that there may be a plan to help. Can you assure us that it will happen and when, Minister?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Thank you for your question.

I'll do a brief recap. When the pandemic began, all of the government's efforts were focused on helping Canadians who needed help. Let's be frank, we did not know how widespread the pandemic would be, how severe it would be, how long it would last, or how it would affect certain sectors, such as the airline industry.

We now have a much clearer picture of where the airline industry stands, whether large or small airlines, small or large airports, NAV CANADA or the aerospace sector that supplies the supply chain. As I've mentioned several times, in response to your questions in fact, we are working on a comprehensive plan to help this sector, because we want it to survive.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I'm trying to understand. You're telling me that the government couldn't foresee everything that was going to happen; but neither could the other countries. Yet other countries have taken steps to help the airline industry. Why are we the only ones not supporting our air industry?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Our country does its own analysis to know what measures it should put in place. I can assure you that we are talking to all the organizations involved, not only those working in the air sector, but also the unions and the mayors of the cities affected by the fact that their small airport has lost service. We are looking into all of these things thoroughly.

I can assure you that I'm not twiddling my thumbs these days. We are working on a plan that will ensure that the airline industry survives and thrives after this pandemic.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I'm glad to know that a plan is in sight. I just hope it will be ready very soon.

I'd like a guarantee that this plan will take into account the thousands of people who want their airfare reimbursed. There are billions of dollars up in the air and these people want their money back, and not when they die or their children have grown up.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I agree with you that there are billions of dollars at stake. Given the difficulties that the airline industry is going through, it's a very difficult situation. I understand that people want to be reimbursed, but by the same token, that reimbursement would put some airlines in very serious financial difficulty.

This issue is part of our current study to arrive at measures that will eventually be announced.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Do you not think that airlines should respect the law?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

You will understand the dilemma, Mr. Barsalou-Duval. Some airlines are so close to bankruptcy that they would not be able to continue their operations. It's a very difficult decision for the company. I think you will agree with me that we want the airline sector to still be there after this pandemic. This is not an easy situation to manage.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I understand from what you are saying that you don't necessarily want companies to comply with the law.

I have one last question to ask you about regional air travel. Throughout Quebec, airports and regional carriers are struggling. There have been huge cuts in services.

A task force on air transport has been set up in Quebec. First, can we be assured that you will respect the conclusions of this Quebec task force? Second, why did you refuse to meet with the crisis unit of the Union des municipalités du Québec?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I talk to my counterpart in Quebec, Minister Bonnardel. We are very well aware of this. Minister Joly, who is responsible for regional development, is also working on this file, as is Minister Fitzgibbon on the Quebec side. We understand the magnitude of the challenge. That's why, in the Speech from the Throne, we recognized that maintaining regional air service is a priority, although not everything is put in a Speech from the Throne.

If it's any comfort to you, it was in the Speech from the Throne, and it's a promise that should be kept.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I'm very happy to hear that it was in the Speech from the Throne, but I would just like to have the assurance that you will respect the decisions that Quebec will make on this issue.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

We are working on this file with the province of Quebec, with which we get along extremely well, as you know, as well as on several transportation-related files.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you for your replies.

I believe I understand that we can't expect much from you regarding the reimbursement of airline tickets. There are people who handle complaints at the Canadian Transportation Agency. But the person responsible for handling complaints has been excluded from the Bar. Are you comfortable with this situation?

In addition, I would like to know the process for selecting the people you appoint to the Canadian Transportation Agency's board of directors. You appointed the spouse of someone who does lobbying for airlines.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I will not comment on the people who work at the Canadian Transportation Agency.

As you know, it is a quasi-judicial body independent of Transport Canada and makes its own decisions. Having said that, I can assure you that a very fair system is used to select the people who work at the Canadian Transportation Agency. Rigorous checks are done before someone is appointed to this very important agency.