Transport Committee on Nov. 5th, 2020

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

So you have no problem appointing spouses of lobbyists to the agency?

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

I'm now going to move on to Mr. Bachrach for six minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for joining us today, Minister.

Minister, across Canada and in the part of the world that I represent in northwest B.C., every day hundreds and thousands of men and women climb into locomotives and operate trains that are kilometres long and carry thousands of tonnes of goods. Some of them are dangerous goods. They do this with the expectation that their employer and their government are protecting their safety. As you know, in February of last year Daniel Waldenberger-Bulmer, Andrew Dockrell, and Dylan Paradis tragically lost their lives in British Columbia after the train they were operating derailed. It derailed despite concerns and warnings that the train was not safe to operate.

The families of these workers want a criminal investigation to take place. I would like to know what you would say to those families who are asking for you to call on the RCMP to conduct a criminal investigation.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Thank you for the question.

First of all, I address my condolences to the families of the three CP employees who tragically lost their lives in the tragic B.C. incident.

I do not have the authority to tell the RCMP to investigate. They make their own decisions with respect to these matters. I will tell you that very shortly after this incident I put out a ministerial order with respect to procedures that would have to be adopted when a long train had to make an emergency stop on a mountain grade—1.8 degrees or steeper—to ensure that hand brakes would be put on, so that we could prevent this kind of incident in the future. That has since become a permanent measure.

In addition, when a train must stop on what's called an emergency stop, they have to report that to Transport Canada. These are new safety measures in the follow-up to this tragic incident.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Minister, with regard to that same incident, according to the CBC, the investigation of the CP derailment has been riddled with irregularities. The Transportation Safety Board's lead investigator was removed from his post after recommending a criminal probe by the RCMP. CP's internal police service shut down its investigation prematurely, prompting their lead constable to resign in frustration.

I'm wondering if you can comment on the accountability here. Do you personally feel that there has been accountability in this specific case? Do you feel that the families of the three men who were killed received the answers they deserve?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I will tell you, Mr. Bachrach, that the Transportation Safety Board is an independent board that does its own inquiries when this kind of incident occurs. They are in the middle of it. They have not rendered their final report. We must respect their arm's length authority to independently investigate without Transport Canada being involved at all, because sometimes they will have recommendations for Transport Canada after they've completed their inquiries.

We also do not oversee CP police, as that comes under the Canadian Pacific company.

Finally, I will say that Transport Canada did perform an occupational health and safety investigation on behalf of labour Canada as a result of this tragedy. We have given our report to CP. That part has been completed by Transport Canada.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I'll ask just very briefly, Minister. Do you feel that a criminal probe is warranted, given what you know about this incident?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I believe that the Transportation Safety Board will tell us what actually happened. That is what I am focused on now, as well as seeing if there are things both the railways and Transport Canada can do to make the system safer.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Minister, shifting to a different subject, the NDP has sent your government a series of recommendations with regard to any sectoral support for the airline industry. A few of the points covered in those recommendations are the following: first of all, that airline companies respect their workers' rights and that financial support should not be used to compensate CEOs, executives and shareholders, but rather to protect the jobs of the workers who work for those companies; secondly, that the government take equity positions in airlines to ensure that the public's interest is protected through public ownership; and thirdly—and very importantly—that passengers be refunded for tickets they purchased that were cancelled due to COVID.

I think everyone agrees that when you buy something and you don't receive what you bought, you should get a refund.

I'm wondering if you agree with these principles. Will you commit to making any sectoral support for the airline sector reflect these principles that I've listed?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

What I will say, Mr. Bachrach, is that I appreciate the input that you and your party provided. We went out and consulted and received input from all parties and sometimes from individuals. We also received some from the Senate. We very much appreciate it.

Of course, this is part of the process of deciding how we are going to proceed now that we've had the benefit of a lot of recommendations and suggestions. I can tell you that, with respect to workers, I have met with CUPE and with Unifor. I am very much aware of their requirements as well.

We want to ensure that, when we come up with a final set of measures, we have taken into consideration all of the important input provided to us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Is that it? Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Sorry about that.

We are going to be going on to the second round right now.

Mr. Kram, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair,

Thank you, Minister, for appearing before the committee today.

When it comes to air travel, I think it's important to distinguish between airlines and airports. That's because all the help in the world for Canada's airlines won't do much good if they don't have any place to land or take off from.

I'm wondering if the minister can tell the committee whether the government is planning to do anything in particular for Canada's airports, or is the plan to just let the smaller regional airports go bankrupt over the coming weeks and months?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

We're very much aware of the fact that the airports have been heavily impacted. If you don't have passengers flying on airplanes, you don't have passengers in airports. We're very conscious of that.

When this pandemic occurred last March, we did provide a rent-free subsidy to 21 of the largest airports for the whole of 2020. However, we also realize that it's not just the big airports that have the largest volumes. The small airports also have to be able to stay open if we're going to be able to fulfill our responsibilities in terms of regional routes, so, yes, they are part of what we are looking at.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you.

On what date can we expect the government to release its plan to save Canada's airports?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

I can't give you that date. All I can tell you is that we are working very hard on finalizing something. As you will know, in going through the necessary processes that occur within a government, there are a certain number of steps that have to be followed. I can't give you a precise date. Let me just say, though, that it is something with which we are very seized.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

I understand that you cannot give us a precise date. Will it be before Christmas?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

As I said, I can't give you a precise date. Any minister or politician who is foolhardy enough to give specific dates is usually going to turn out to be wrong. What I'm trying to tell you is that we're doing it as quickly as possible.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

All right.

Other countries released their plans to save their airports a long time ago. New Zealand announced its plan last March to help airports with their operating costs during the pandemic. The United States passed the CARES Act into law last March, which earmarked money specifically for airports.

Today, the calendar says November, and the Canadian government still has not announced its plan to save our airports.

Can you explain why it takes the Canadian government eight months and counting to do what the Americans and the New Zealanders did in one month?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

To answer your question, you have to compare apples to apples. If you compare, for example, airports in Canada to airports in the United States, they operate differently. They receive funding from different sources. It is important not to make direct comparisons between the two.

As I said, now that we have a good understanding of the impact on the air sector, we are working very hard to come up with measures to address it. We did some things right from the beginning. For example, many airport employees were able to access the wage subsidy program. We're very proud of that. Twenty-one airports were allowed to get a rent holiday for the year 2020. We have put in place some measures.

In the case of northern airports serving remote areas, we have provided funding of $192 million to make sure that those 140 remote communities, which are so important in the north of our country, could still rely on airlines and air transport companies could service them.

We have done some things as we moved along, but we're looking at the big picture now.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Okay, thank you.

Can you tell us if the plan to save the airline sector will include any help for rapid testing?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

That's a parallel activity we've been working on with the airlines and with the airports as well. In Canada, we worked very constructively with the airlines and the airports to put in place measures that would minimize the possibility of infection when somebody did go to an airport and took a flight to another destination. Lots of safety precautions have been put in place, like wearing masks, taking temperatures, asking certain questions and trying to minimize contact. The airports have done a great job cleaning and sanitizing their airports. The airlines themselves clean the aircraft after each flight. The air ventilation system on board these aircraft are extremely efficient at minimizing the possibility of transmission, but we also have the rules with respect to wearing masks.

Your question is very important. If we can find a rapid test that's reliable and efficient, it will allow us the potential to reduce that 14-day quarantine that exists when somebody comes in from outside the country. That would make a very big difference. We're watching very carefully what's happening at the Toronto airport, as well as the pilot tests we are involved in with the Government of Alberta at the Calgary airport.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Mr. Kram.

We'll now move on, for five minutes, to Mr. Rogers.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Good evening, Minister Garneau. Welcome to the TRAN committee.

I have a couple of questions for you. We've had a lot of questions on airlines, but being from Newfoundland and Labrador, surrounded by water, and from Atlantic Canada, I'm going to focus on questions around the ferry service.

First of all, I noticed in the documents we received that your department allocated $2 million for a number of capital projects for Marine Atlantic, which is greatly appreciated. However, there's a bigger ask for a new support building, in the town of Port aux Basques, for the route between Port aux Basques and North Sydney. I was just wondering if you could update us on the status of that plan and the request for funding approval to complete that project.