Transport Committee on Nov. 5th, 2020

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

I should have just kept going.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Ms. Jaczek.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I have some fairly technical questions for our officials.

In looking through the supplementary (B)s, I was quite intrigued by a number of the items, and one in particular for “Funding to deliver better service to air travellers”, at $12 million. Quite honestly I have to say that I hate air travel, and anything that could possibly improve service is certainly music to my ears.

Could you explain—and I don't know who the best person is to do that—just what exactly this money is supposed to achieve?

[Michael Keenan]

Thank you for the question.

This relates to an initiative that we launched in the 2019 budget. We passed a bill.... I'm trying to remember the name of the act, but I think this was for the P3...? You know, I actually have the wrong line item. I'm going to turn to the assistant deputy minister, Ryan Pilgrim, our chief financial officer, to speak to this. I think I was speaking to the wrong item.

[Ryan Pilgrim, Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Department of Transport]

This $12 million is for an expense reimbursement agreement. With the potential sale of CATSA to an independent party, the purchasers' approved diligence and negotiation expenses would be reimbursed up to an agreed-upon cap if the negotiations fail. The thought was that the sale would go through this year, so this money was pulled in for that in case we had to reimburse the group that purchased the entity. That's what it's for. It's a contingent liability.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Is that somehow going to relate to better service for air travellers, with the sale or the transition of CATSA? Could you elaborate?

I'm new to this and I don't understand.

[Michael Keenan]

Happily, and I apologize for the confusion on this.

In the 2019 budget, the government announced a plan to transition CATSA, the air travel security agency, from a Crown corporation into a not-for-profit corporation that would run essentially like a co-op. It is essentially replicating the model that we did for air navigation services quite some time ago. It was a service function of air navigation that was essentially a part of Transport Canada, and we transitioned it to a not-for-profit corporation that was fully focused on service and has been able to generate essentially higher levels of service, better safety performance and lower costs.

The plan is to drive a similar transition in the governance of CATSA to enable the organization to, we believe, work more closely with the airports and airlines to provide a better and faster service to travellers in terms of their security screening and that of their luggage.

Now, this was launched back when one of the main challenges was ensuring you had an efficient service that could handle the ever-increasing volume of passengers. It's a reform that is sort of midstream, and we're taking stock of how to proceed with this reform given the unprecedented and devastating impact we've seen on air travel.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you. That does help quite a bit.

My other question relates to CATSA and some $41.5 million for explosives detection systems. I would have assumed that we already have some sort of explosives detection system.

Again, could you just elaborate on what this expenditure is going to be used for?

[Michael Keenan]

Sure. There's an element of the operations of CATSA that.... At its heart, it is a security operation that uses the best intelligence on security threats and the latest technology to protect passengers from mischief. In the personal screening and the hold-baggage screening, there's always an evolution of the technology to more sophisticated x-ray machines and remote sensing. We're working on the adoption of some newer technology that allows better remote sensing of explosives without as much intrusion as you would normally see. You know, you go through and then there's the swab of the bag. There's a way to start doing that in a more remote manner using the latest technology.

In CATSA, we're always going through, every few years, an investment in the next technology to better screen for things like explosives and weapons and better protect passengers in a manner that's less intrusive as they go through the screening points.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Keenan, and thank you, Ms. Jaczek.

We're now going to move on to Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Mr. Keenan, you have certainly received letters from airlines, regional ones especially, complaining about a situation that arose on July 1.

A new regulation affecting the Twin Otter aircraft came into force. The Twin Otter is the main aircraft used to serve northern communities. The brush plane regularly uses runways in less than ideal conditions.

Under the July 1 regulation, airlines can no longer use the aircraft, even though it was seldom involved in accidents. It has been in operation since the 1960s and is manufactured here.

Before you introduced the regulation, did you consult with regional airline operators, especially given COVID-19 and the crisis in the airline sector? The timing of the regulation makes me question the process and thinking behind it.

[Michael Keenan]

You raise a great point: We have a fundamental mission. Our number one objective at Transport Canada is the safety of the travelling public. There are always a number of issues that we're working through, a number of standards we're improving and regulations that we're modernizing. We're looking very carefully at how we carry out that number one priority in the context of the deep disruption of COVID.

On some basic level, we have extended deadlines for the renewal of pilots' licences, etc. When it comes to addressing pressing safety concerns with equipment, we have to continue to pursue the changes to airworthiness directives and the corrective actions. We have tried our best to make adjustments to reflect the disruption, and we've changed some timelines on a number of safety initiatives to, without sacrificing safety, allow for the disruption that operators are facing.

When we make changes to a requirement, for example, for the training of pilots or for equipment on planes, we do consult with both the manufacturers and the operators, because the operators have to put the changes in place.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I am happy to hear you carried out consultations, but I imagine the companies didn't agree with your decision, given that I am hearing from them. I understand why they are upset: the main aircraft small airlines use to keep regions connected can no longer be used. I see a big problem with that.

How many accidents was the aircraft involved in? What data was the regulation based on?

[Michael Keenan]

Again, I think it's a great question, because we're very conscious that in remote communities, particularly those that have no other access to transportation legs, the small regional operators and planes like the Twin Otter are absolutely the backbone of all the essential supply. We work through and seek to find a way to address the safety concerns in a manner that does not disrupt operations. We can often find solutions. Sometimes the operators are not happy with the results of our safety officials, but we do try to be conscious of operational implications and give enough time and enough notice for the operators to come into compliance so that we do not disrupt essential transportation routes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I encourage you to keep working with those companies to find solutions, because it would be helpful if they could continue using the aircraft. Sometimes, runway investments are necessary, but you could also provide financial assistance. In any case, I think it's very ill-advised to impose the regulation on them like this, especially because it comes at such a huge cost to remote regions.

My other question has to do with the new regulations on pilot fatigue. I've heard that planes may need to have more pilots. Northern communities do not have enough housing, and the fact that more people are on an aircraft increases the risk of exposure to COVID-19. When you have two pilots on a nine-passenger plane, it gets to be a lot.

Did you take into account the issues air carriers brought to your attention, especially the smaller ones that serve the regions?

[Michael Keenan]

Mr. Chair, the member raises another very good question. This is a great example of the significant number of operational problems we've seen air operators run into as a result of the COVID disruptions. They're particularly acute, as the member has indicated, for the small airlines going into remote communities.

What I can is that the safety officials and Transport Canada civil aviation are maintaining an ongoing dialogue with air operators, including northern air operators, the small regional operators, to identify the challenges they're facing as a result of COVID. We are doing our best and we are offering flexibility on a number of the civil aviation safety requirements. Wherever we can provide flexibility that we believe does not sacrifice public safety, our officials are trying to do that.

I can commit to taking these two issues back and seeing where we're at with our safety officials. However, I never direct safety officials. They have to come to a conclusion themselves. I think I will see what other room there is to offer flexibility on these operational issues, as long as it does not sacrifice public safety.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I have one last question for you.

For months now, a Transport Canada report on the sale of Air Transat has been sitting on your desk. Where are you in your review? Are you worried about the impact on competition? Did you receive the committee's request for the production of papers? Can we count on you to provide them on time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, I'll hold off that question.

Mr. Keenan, if you can get that answer into another question, that would be wonderful.

[Michael Keenan]

Sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. Bachrach, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My questions are perhaps for Mr. Keenan, but I suppose whoever is best equipped to answer them can jump in.

I want to start where I left off with the minister, talking a little bit about the CTA, the Canadian Transportation Agency, and the complaints that it's received. We all know there's a huge backlog of complaints, and we heard from the minister that at least 10,000 additional complaints have been received since the beginning of the pandemic.

I'm wondering if Mr. Keenan can speak to how many of those 10,000 complaints have been investigated, or whether, given the backlog, the CTA simply hasn't been able to get to the pandemic-related complaints.

[Michael Keenan]

Thank you.

That question would have to be put to the CTA. It's a quasi-judicial entity that operates arm's length from Transport Canada.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Keenan.

Maybe I'll try this tack. In the main estimates, the funding for the CTA is included. By our read, it looks like there's a reduction of about $2 million for dispute resolution based on what was spent last year. It seems like, given the backlog of complaints and the massive number of complaints related to the pandemic, this would be an agency that should be receiving more money, not less.

Can you speak to why that seems to be the case in the estimates and why the CTA isn't getting an increase in funding in order to deal with the backlog that they're seeing?

[Michael Keenan]

That's an absolutely fair question.

To get a complete picture of the CTA's resources to deal with all of its operations, including the uptick in complaints from passengers, you have to look not just at the main estimates but also at the supplementary (B)s. You will find in the supplementary (B)s that there is an item to add just over $11 million to the funding of the CTA specifically to give it a significant boost in resources to address the significant uptick in air passenger complaints.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Keenan.

Moving on, many of my colleagues have mentioned the situation facing smaller regional airports. That's certainly an issue of great concern in northwest B.C.

I've been speaking with different airport operators and with local governments. One of the concerns is around the ACAP program, the airports capital assistance program. I noted in the main estimates that the funding seems to have remained fixed at about $38 million and it's been at that level since 2000. This is a program that local governments that run airports and other airport authorities really depend on to purchase expensive capital equipment and make other capital upgrades that wouldn't otherwise be affordable.

I'm wondering if you can comment on the need for an increase to the ACAP program. This is something I wrote to the minister about recently, specifically with regard to the Bella Bella and Bella Coola airports, which need upgrades to their lighting so that medevac flights can land there. During the pandemic, of course, this is an issue of utmost concern.

Is your department considering increasing the ACAP program?