Transport Committee on Feb. 15th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Badawey.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you now have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This will likely be my last chance to ask the witnesses questions. I want to talk about an issue that was also raised by Mr. Lukács in the first part of our meeting. He argued that the one‑person‑one‑fare policy, which applies to domestic flights, should also apply to all flights to and from Canada.

A few years ago, a person named Ms. Cheung filed an application against WestJet with the Canadian Transportation Agency. WestJet fought this application. It was filed by a person with reduced mobility who, I imagine, needed more than one seat. WestJet refused to apply the policy for this person. I would like to know why WestJet doesn't want to apply this policy and why its fare policies still discriminate against people with reduced mobility.

[Alexis von Hoensbroech]

Maybe just as a general comment, I agree that it's confusing. There are different regulations for domestic and international flying. The domestic is always relatively easy to organize. Internationally, you always have to think of the other airlines as well. There are other airlines that are flying, and you don't want to create more confusion. When they fly on a Canadian airline they have one service, and when they fly on a non-Canadian airline they get another one. If you have code-sharing and you have a Canadian ticket but a foreign carrier, it actually gets pretty complex.

That's why we need standards on these things. These standards need to be international—

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Why can't you apply the same standards to both domestic and international flights?

[Alexis von Hoensbroech]

I think what we need is consistency. I'm not generally opposed to that. I'm just saying that we need consistency. Once we get into international travel, we need to make sure that the consistency is not just on the Canadian airlines but also on the other airlines. Otherwise, it becomes very complex and very confusing for the guests. I agree with you that this is a confusing item.

Todd, maybe you can speak to more details on that.

[Todd Peterson]

I think you summed it up well, Alexis.

We fly to Paris, for example, but so does Air France. It's very confusing for guests and difficult when there's a different rule for a WestJet flight versus an Air France flight versus our code-share on an Air France flight. This is where consistency is important.

We agree that to this point, the regulator has made the right decision. We also support the ongoing discussions at forums like IATA.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Peterson.

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Next we have Mr. Bachrach.

The floor is yours for two and a half minutes, please.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Picking up on that last point, I'm a little bit confused by the statement that it would be complex and confusing for the guests. The guests are the ones who are requesting that the one-person-one-fare rule be upheld on international flights.

I would come back to Mr. Barsalou‑Duval's question: What is preventing WestJet from accommodating them on WestJet's flights to and from Canada?

[Alexis von Hoensbroech]

I can just repeat what I said before, that it's the consistency across the entire system. If someone books a WestJet ticket but this is operated on an Air France flight, for instance, and Air France does not have this type of rule, then this is creating confusion, and we may not be able to deliver. It's confusing.

I also think a solution is needed on that, but the solution needs to be an international standard and not a Canadian stand-alone solution.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

It seems that WestJet is fighting this in court when it could actually be accommodating people on every flight where it's possible.

I'm going to move on to another point.

You've been forthcoming about the number of complaints received from people with disabilities who travel on your flights. Would you support changes to legislation that would require airlines to provide those statistics to the CTA so that there can be public transparency?

[Alexis von Hoensbroech]

I would, 100%. I think that transparency is super important in our industry. We are ready to share all this information with the CTA.

I would also request transparency in the other direction. The CTA has not always been super transparent about what kinds of complaints there are and what status the complaints sitting with the CTA have. I think that transparency is definitely something that can be improved in the Canadian regulatory space. We are ready to participate for those parts that we control.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I'll end on that note. I appreciate that response. Hopefully the committee can include a recommendation to ensure that Canadian law in that regard is consistent with the United States, where airlines are required to share their complaint data with the FAA so that there can be public transparency and so that it can be audited.

One thing coming out of the Auditor General's work is the fact that there's limited transparency under the current regulations. I think we would all look forward to that.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

Next we have Mr. Strahl.

[Alexis von Hoensbroech]

I'm sorry. I just want to recommend....

We provide this information when we are asked, so we don't need to be regulated to provide it. We're happy to share all of this information with the public.

[Andrew Gibbons]

We came here today to do that. [Inaudible—Editor] regulation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much.

I'll turn it over to Mr. Strahl.

We're going to have to tighten the timeline a little, so I'll give you three minutes, sir.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Thank you.

There was a CTA ruling that affected Air Canada—which is being appealed—that talked about the need for the airline to perhaps provide, with enough notice, even different aircraft to service someone who booked a ticket on a flight.

Have you considered that possibility? If someone who has a power chair, for instance, books a flight and the route is normally served by a Q400 aircraft, are you envisioning a system where, with enough notice, WestJet would either voluntarily or be required to change equipment in order to accommodate that passenger in getting to a destination that WestJet serves?

[Alexis von Hoensbroech]

Generally we always try to accommodate and find solutions. However, if it would be a regulatory requirement to always use an aircraft that has certain capabilities, this may become quite a challenge. We have seven airplanes—just seven—that are widebodies and that have big cargo holds and big storage facilities within the passenger cabins. If an issue happens in Fort McMurray, that's not an airport that we can even fly these airplanes to. There are limits to what we can do, especially within the network that we are currently flying in with our regional airplanes.

I understand the thought behind it, but I'm not sure that it will entirely pass the practicality test.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Obviously, you can't discuss internal discussions with your union partners, but what have your conversations been with WestJet employees? They're on the front lines of this often, and they are being asked to perform a task that perhaps is not very common. Commonly, they would be loading suitcases, and then every once in a while they would have a very sensitive piece of equipment. Commonly, they would be responsible for service to guests on an aircraft and for safety, but then every once in a while they would have a very complicated case that presents itself.

Are you working with Unifor and your other union partners to...? Are they a part of this integrated system that you've come up with? Can you describe how you're addressing this with your union partners?

[Alexis von Hoensbroech]

Yes, one hundred per cent. We have a very constructive relationship with the unions. We discuss all these types of things with the unions wherever it's appropriate.

Let me just correct one thing. It's not a rare thing. We have someone with some kind of disability, on average, on every single flight. Our team is passionate about helping these people and facilitating their travel.

The higher customer rating that we receive from people with disabilities compared to average passengers shows that this is working really well. There are alway some mistakes that happen, but for the most part this is actually working really well. They write compliments for the tremendous efforts of our team.

[Andrew Gibbons]

Can I just add one point?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Answer very quickly, Mr. Gibbons, if you can.

[Andrew Gibbons]

We have extended this invitation to many groups, but as part of your study, we welcome you to WestJet to meet with our teams that provide these services every day to get feedback from them, hear their stories about the challenges and also about the respect and culture of care that we have.

As part of your study, we welcome you to come WestJet and do that. Come, listen and learn.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Gibbons.

We'll conclude our questioning today with Ms. Murray.

I'll turn the floor over to you. You have three minutes, please.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you very much. It's a very interesting conversation.

Mr. von Hoensbroech, are the 200 complaints a trend in the right direction? What was the number of complaints two or three years ago?