Evidence of meeting #105 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was air.
A video is available from Parliament.
1 p.m.
Liberal
Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC
Thank you, Professor.
Just before my time is up, is it possible for you to share what those 19 recommendations are?
1 p.m.
Chair, Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act Alliance
Yes. They're in the brief that we filed with you.
1 p.m.
Liberal
Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC
Okay. In it, do you have the examples of where you picked them up, those 19 recommendations?
1 p.m.
Chair, Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act Alliance
We just invented them.
1 p.m.
Chair, Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act Alliance
No, but we explain them.
1 p.m.
Liberal
Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC
Is there a reference to where this is being done today so that we have a better picture of where to go to see how these practices are being done?
1 p.m.
Chair, Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act Alliance
No, there isn't. We can look to see whether we can do that. If we can, we will.
1 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much, Mr. Iacono.
Thank you, Mr. Lepofsky.
Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
1 p.m.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll build on this topic.
Mr. Lepofsky, in your opening remarks, you said that the legislation should include rights for people with reduced mobility, as is the case in the United States. In Canada, there have been air passenger rights regulations since 2019.
What's the difference between the legal situation in the United States and the legal situation here? If things are better over there, how can things be changed here?
1 p.m.
Chair, Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act Alliance
We actually quote it, I believe, in our brief. Theirs is just a short list of categorical, clear rights. Now, if we were writing one for Canada—if you, this committee, or the government decided to draft one—we might add to it and vary it. We don't need to just carbon-copy it. We should take into account some of the problems that this committee has seen. The idea of having that bill of rights, having it be enforceable, having a hotline and having it mandatorily notified to all passengers when they book a ticket with the airline and so on would help to move things forward.
It's not hard. It shouldn't be full of the feast of loopholes in the CTA's 2019 regulations. That's what I'd suggest.
1:05 p.m.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
If I understand your proposal correctly, it's a list of rights guaranteed to people. It isn't, for example, a bunch of complicated regulations, which can be full of loopholes.
In other words, a better result is achieved by establishing simple rights subject to broad interpretation. That sounds a bit like broad principles.
Is that right?
1:05 p.m.
Chair, Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act Alliance
Yes.
Well, you know, it doesn't even have to be principles. “The airline shall tell passengers with disabilities what services are available and what number to reach them at.” That's not a principle. It's just a clear direction. It doesn't have to be kind of lofty and aspirational. It can be concrete entitlement.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much, Mr. Lepofsky.
Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.
Finally, for today, we have Mr. Bachrach.
Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours. You have two and a half minutes. Go ahead, please.
1:05 p.m.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Lepofsky, you started by recognizing the law students at Western who've contributed to this work. I want to take a quick moment to recognize my staff, especially Margaret Crew for her work. I understand that you were in touch with her in preparation for today's meeting.
It seems as though one of the aspects we're talking about is trying to define the scope and the scale of the problem we face. While we could take actions, such as the ones you've recommended, in the absence of precise and accurate data, it strikes me that it would be useful to be able to track progress over time. To do that, we need better information about how the problem is doing.
Is that a fair assumption? If it is, what would you recommend in terms of data collection and reporting so that we can have a good sense of whether progress is being made on this issue?
1:05 p.m.
Chair, Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act Alliance
Yes, it's a good idea.
We don't need to wait for data to know these are problems. We don't need to wait to see how many times they've failed to announce pre-boarding, as they did on my flight last night, to know that we need a measure to ensure they announce pre-boarding.
However, there are these measures. Number one is to have secret shoppers, not as part of the airline but as part of an independent regulator that is auditing on site what's going on. Number two is to require that the airlines file with the regulator all the complaints they receive. They could, of course, be anonymized. Number three is to require the airlines and airports, as I said earlier, to publicly announce a simple, easy-to-access phone number, as well as an email address and a mailing address to register complaints, because we'll hear from more people if we tell them in real time where they can do that.
If all those things are provided to the airlines, not just some statistics but what the complaints are.... In fairness to the airlines, just because someone complains, that doesn't mean those are the facts, but you could at least look at them to see what kind of recurring patterns you see. If you get all those complaints—even if you assume that half of them are inaccurate, but you still see a huge trend—that tells you where you need to take regulatory action.
Thank you.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach.
Thank you, Ms. Walkus and Mr. Lepofsky, for being here and for sharing your expertise and your testimony with us. I'd like to thank you on behalf of this committee for your steadfast advocacy and service to Canadians with disabilities.
That concludes our testimony for today. This meeting is adjourned.