Transport Committee on Sept. 19th, 2024

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I know Mr. Berthold asked this, but I want to just clarify.

When was the first time the minister or the minister's office contacted Via with respect to this situation?

[Mario Péloquin]

The minister's office responded on Sunday early afternoon, and I had a call organized with the minister for Tuesday at 12:30.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

He didn't contact your office; Via contacted his office.

Is that correct?

[Mario Péloquin]

Yes. As per our arrangements with Transport, we contacted different officials in the ministry, and we made them aware of the situation at around 6:50 on Saturday evening.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

To me, as has been said, this is a very difficult situation, really. As you have said, it is an unacceptable situation, particularly when—Cobourg, of course, is in my riding—it happened a couple years before, during Christmas. We were supposed to put in protocols that would have stopped that, and we had it repeat. I think that's fair.

You contrasted a bit between the Cobourg and Quebec incidents. I would actually say that the Quebec incident is far worse, because an ice storm may not be predictable, but certainly a mechanical failure of a train is something that will happen again and again.

You were unwilling to answer my colleague Mr. Bachrach's question with respect to the hours it would be. I understand that every hour will be different, but if not now, could you commit to saying that in the future, the maximum amount of time would be five hours?

Could you even commit to the fact that there will always be enough food and water on a Via train that, should a delay happen, this will not be repeated again, and for no period will Canadians be without food or water?

[Mario Péloquin]

As we've mentioned a couple of times, we are investigating now the events of that day, with an independent team as well. I'm sure we're going to get good recommendations from that.

As far as food on board, after the December 2022 events, we stocked the train with emergency supplies, as Madam Toporowski explained a moment ago. We did have those emergency supplies and additional water on the train that we deployed as per the lessons learned from 2022.

Unfortunately, there's not enough to last forever. We even ordered supplies from outside to supply the train at that time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Mr. Péloquin, I'm sorry to cut you off.

I don't think we have translation in French.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval can confirm that for me.

We're going to wait to confirm that we do have translation, and then we'll restart the clock.

You have one minute and 10 seconds left.

Colleagues, we're going to suspend for five minutes until we rectify the situation with translation.

This meeting is suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I call this meeting back to order. Thank you all for your patience.

Mr. Lawrence, you had one minute and 10 seconds left. The floor is yours, sir.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

The challenge I have, Mr. Péloquin, is that this is a recurring issue. We had an incident in Cobourg and now an issue in Quebec.

In addition, over the time Prime Minister Trudeau has been in office, Via has received nearly $8 billion. Your executives will receive, on average, $1.1 million this year. You are doing very well as an organization, but Canadians continue to suffer. Now we hear that the then Minister of Transport contacted you only once prior to this, then several days afterwards. This is not acceptable. Unfortunately, this Liberal government's response is to now have a part-time transportation minister. My question for the government is, when will you take transportation seriously?

Here is my question to you: What can you offer Canadians to tell them that we won't see this happen a third time—Canadians being stranded with limited food and water for 10 hours?

[Mario Péloquin]

It's important to note that this was a very isolated incident. We have about 20,000 train starts every year, with 80% of those train trips arriving on time or within 30 minutes of their scheduled arrival time.

As far as making sure this does not happen again, the measures we highlighted earlier will go a long way to ensuring it doesn't.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lawrence.

Mr. Iacono, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the entire Via Rail team for being here this afternoon.

On January 26, 2023, the committee met with Martin Landry, Via Rail's interim president and chief executive officer. I believe that Ms. Toporowski also attended that meeting. During his appearance, Mr. Landry stated that Via Rail must “absolutely learn lessons from these events to adjust [its] protocols in the future.”

I'm sure that you followed the protocols in place during the December 2022 event. I want to know whether any protocols have been changed since December 2022. If so, could you provide a list of all your protocols and any changes made since the December 2022 events?

Have you established protocols?

[Mario Péloquin]

Thank you for the question. The short answer is yes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Good.

To your knowledge, were these protocols applied in the case of train 622, on August 31, 2024?

[Mario Péloquin]

Thank you for the clarification.

As you said, Ms. Toporowski attended the meeting on January 26, 2023. I'll let her answer the question.

[Rita Toporowski]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Iacono.

Yes. We've established different and improved protocols since December 2022. They were in place. They were related to food, water and the treatment of passengers on board the train—

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I'm sorry to cut you off, but I have only five minutes.

I'd like it if you could also provide, on that list, the protocols set in December that were followed for this incident. Also, I'd like to know whether Via Rail staff followed the protocols, and what the protocols are that they're supposed to follow.

I would like to say, overall, that you have a lot of protocols for different people on board—different staff or employees, be it at the train station, the control station or elsewhere.

Therefore, I'd like, through you, Mr. Chair, to get a readout of those protocols and also a highlight on whether those protocols were followed.

I have another question: Do you keep a log of all actions undertaken in due course of an emergency?

[Mario Péloquin]

We have a control centre that takes care of all communications in all of the events that happen on Via Rail.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

I would like the Via Rail officials to also give us, if possible, a record of everything undertaken on the day of the event. This could include activities, calls or measures.

My next question is the following.

Who is the person who is to be called when an incident occurs? Who is the first person who gets called?

[Mario Péloquin]

Depending on what type of event it is, there are different escalation processes. In this case, of course, as the problem escalates, different people get involved until the chief of that division, Madam Toporowski, is alerted, and then she alerts me.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Okay. After you are alerted by her, who else gets alerted?

[Mario Péloquin]

There are parallel protocols that are in place. Before Madam Toporowski gets advised, there's another protocol that advises the situation centre at Transport Canada, so that they know there are things happening that are not normal. I advise the office of the minister, the deputy minister and the board of Via Rail.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Is the chief of police advised?

[Mario Péloquin]

The chief of police is involved in those protocols. They are aware.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

When is he advised?