Transport Committee on Nov. 7th, 2024

[Sgt Dave Moffatt]

Absolutely.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Sergeant Moffatt.

Thank you, Mr. Iacono.

I now give the floor to Mr. Barsalou‑Duval for six minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

Ms. Mercier‑Blais, I'll start with you.

In your presentation, you said that the study you conducted focused in particular on wake boats. Have you studied other types of boats?

[Sara Mercier-Blais]

The study that was commissioned only looked at the impact of wake boats, because that was the issue for the two agencies that came to us. So the study did not look at other types of vessels.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Although you personally have not done a study on other types of vessels besides wake boats, are you comfortable relying on your scientific knowledge to tell us what precautions should be taken with other types of vessels?

[Sara Mercier-Blais]

Other studies have been done on the subject, of course. I'm thinking in particular of a study conducted by some of my colleagues on the Rideau Canal in Ottawa. A number of studies have mentioned this: The closer a boat gets to shore, the greater the impact on the shore. The studies don't exactly agree on a number, because environments differ and types of boats are not exactly the same. A variable impact is observed, but it is certainly something that stands out in a number of studies.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I have another question for you.

The study you did on wake boats—I imagine that it was under circumstances involving a desire to come up with a bylaw, but they wanted to be able to rely on facts first.

From your perspective as a researcher, what would be the impact on biodiversity and on the health of our waterways if we don't regulate the use of wake boats in particular, which can sometimes be abusive?

[Sara Mercier-Blais]

It's clear that if the waves have an effect on the bottom of the water body or the shoreline, there will be a resuspension of any sediments that are present. The water composition and water quality will change, as well as the visual aspect. That will also have an impact on the shoreline. So there can be consequences on all of these elements.

If it only happened for one weekend per summer, there would be no effect on the environment. You start to see more impacts when it happens over and over again. In that case, the environment is truly changed, which can obviously have consequences.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Currently, the notion of environmental issues is not really present in the regulatory process. There are people who raise the matter so those issues will be taken into consideration, but safety is the main aspect.

In your opinion—in a context of regulatory reform—should the effect that boats have on the environment be taken into account?

[Sara Mercier-Blais]

It certainly should be, because it is a reality of our time. We must adapt to it and get used to taking our environment into account.

We see the consequences of climate change, but we also see consequences attributable to humans in other respects. In some sites and in certain lakes, we've seen an impact on the environment, so it should definitely be taken into account.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I'd like to discuss something else with you.

Your study set a distance of 300 metres for the lakes you studied. You said that these findings would be valid for most lakes. However, I understand that it may not apply to lakes that are completely different, such as Lac Saint-Jean. In the case of a river, for example, I assume it wouldn't apply exactly the same way either.

[Sara Mercier-Blais]

I'll go back to the example of Lac Saint-Jean. It's not necessarily the size of the system that matters in establishing regulations, but rather the type of shoreline and the chances that a boat will pass near the shore. Of course, in Lac Saint-Jean, it is less likely that a boat will pass by the shoreline. However, marinas are obviously close to shore. So there are places where we need to be more careful.

If different regulations are to be created, they shouldn't necessarily be based on the size of the water bodies, but rather on the type of shoreline and the type of environment. It should be determined whether it's necessary to protect the water body and whether the waves have a major impact on the shoreline. If there was ever a need to conduct a case-by-case study, those are the kinds of characteristics that would have to be checked.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

From what I understand, the factor to consider isn't necessarily the size of the water body. It's more a question of how far the boat is from the shore. So even on a large body of water, if the boat passes close to the shore, there will still be an effect on the shore.

There's something else I'd like to discuss with you. Right now, each municipality or local government seeking to regulate a waterway has to apply for that particular waterway.

Do you think it would be more effective or preferable to have some type of basic universal regulation, based on science, so that we don't have to apply for every one of the thousands of lakes in Quebec, for example? Right now, municipalities have to submit one application after another to Transport Canada to solve the problems they're experiencing with waterways in their area.

[Sara Mercier-Blais]

Obviously, that's a policy or regulatory issue. Personally, I would like to protect as many water bodies as possible, because we study this environment and we want it to remain as it is.

Certainly, if the process were simplified or standardized, it would help to better protect the environment. However, it's not really up to me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval and Ms. Mercier‑Blais.

Next we have Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours. You have six minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to our witnesses for engaging with the committee on this.

I have some questions for Sergeant Moffatt.

You spoke at length about some of the public safety aspects of recreational boating. We've heard that this conversation on recreational boating has split into several different subtopics. One of them is about safety, and another one is about the environmental impact of certain types of recreational boats.

Regarding the discussion on policy solutions for the impacts we're hearing about from the witness who was just speaking, Ms. Mercier-Blais, I'm wondering about the enforcement perspective. If there were a nationwide regulation on wakes within 300 metres of the shore, what would the efficacy of enforcing a regulation like that be? As someone who does enforcement, what do you see as some of the challenges that would have to be overcome?

[Sgt Dave Moffatt]

I think the biggest challenge is that calls for service are very reactive things. We will interview the witness. We'll find out where the boat was and find the exact location, but if it's 300 metres from shore, it's going to be difficult.

As for the proactive side of things, I think that would be easier. Again, it's about having that distance. We would need instruments to measure the distance from our vessels to the shore to see whether the rule was broken.

I will tell you one thing: A very popular complaint is boat waves. It's the courtesy piece. It's the shared waterways piece, as I explained before. It is a huge issue in Ontario.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thanks for that. That's helpful.

I'm interested in your comments about PFD legislation and making PFDs mandatory on boats under six metres.

We heard previous witnesses assert that the data is inadequate. They want a long-term study done by law enforcement to prove the case for PFDs being mandatory in certain circumstances.

Do you feel that the data, both research and anecdotal experience, is sufficient to create regulations now based on what we know?

[Sgt Dave Moffatt]

Historically, we've been trying to change this regulation since 2006, from what I remember. It was a big issue, and then it fell by the wayside.

What I know is this: People are dying on the waterways. If we look at the stats, Ontario fatalities account for about a third of all fatalities in Canada. People are dying because they're falling off vessels, or vessels are capsizing. It's not the bigger vessels, which are more stable. It's the smaller vessels. Every time I read a report that someone has lost their life, when simply wearing a life jacket would have saved their life, it takes a little piece out of me.

I think it's a very important thing. With the technology out there today, like inflatable life jackets and all the items we have now—belt life jackets for SUPs—it's crazy not to wear a life jacket. I'm a huge advocate for mandatory wear. I think I'm part of a small percentage of them in the country. I've read a lot of comments on Let's Talk Transportation, but I think if they did my job, people would change their tune.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I'll turn to the pleasure craft operator card.

My colleague asked you a few questions about this. I'm not super familiar with the process of obtaining one of these certifications.

Do you feel the process, as it currently stands, is adequate to set boaters up for success and give them the knowledge they need to operate safely on the water?

[Sgt Dave Moffatt]

I don't. A lot of my colleagues feel the same way.

A PCOC is designed to give them some knowledge of the water, which is fantastic. To respond to Ms. Creighton's comments, the “Safe Boating Guide” that Transport Canada puts out is the bible for safe boating, I say. People should read it. If they read it, they will pass that test.

However, nothing replaces experience on the water. Having someone sit down and write an online test for an hour after they've studied for a bit.... Driving a boat is not easy. It's not like we have stoplights, lines and roads. We constantly need to have our head on a swivel to operate a vessel safely. I would love to see a training aspect brought into the PCOC—something a little more in-depth—because what I'm seeing out there right now is not adequate.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

That's very interesting. I know that one critique of the current process—I think Ms. Creighton referenced this—is that there's nothing stopping participants from skipping reading the manual altogether and simply doing the online test while googling the answers. You're advocating for a more rigorous approach to boater operator registration and certification.

[Sgt Dave Moffatt]

Yes. We have to take training to drive a car. I will say this every time: Driving a boat is not easy. We need better items in place to make our waterways safer, for sure. COVID put so many boats on the water. It's exploded. We have a huge population on our waterways now. We need people who are aware of that and who have been trained properly.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you once again, Sergeant Moffatt.

Next we'll go to Mr. Chambers.

Mr. Chambers, the floor is yours. You have five minutes, sir.