Transport Committee on Nov. 7th, 2024

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

While we don't have specifics on the carbon tax with respect to boat owners, there has been a conversation about the additional costs, and perhaps that has limited these individuals. I won't put words in your mouth, but we've heard testimony from others that it has shortened the number of rides people take in their boats and has reduced the amount of boating that has gone on.

[Amy Martin]

Yes, absolutely.

Earlier in my testimony, I mentioned floating cottages. That's not by accident. A lot of boat owners can't afford to take their boat out on the lake because the costs are prohibitive. It truly is a floating asset in the marina. There are a lot of costs increasing.

That being said, the municipality will most likely be increasing costs in the marina to cover our capital assets. It's not something everyone can afford.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you for your testimony.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lawrence.

Next we have Monsieur Lauzon.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to continue along the same lines with Mayor Amy Martin.

You talked about a tax. On that note, there is a tax that is very important. I'm talking about the amount that is returned to municipalities, which amounts to about 9%.

Do you think the luxury tax should be removed?

Do you think we should also eliminate this tax, which helps municipalities with infrastructure?

[Amy Martin]

Without looking at the dollars associated with that, I would be making a speculative comment. Wearing my hat as a municipal mayor, I would never suggest that any tax going to the municipality should be repealed. It's very difficult to take on more and more services and manage the delivery of those services on the back of just property taxes, but that's speculative without knowing dollars and cents.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Compared to the tax that's applied, how much does your municipality receive from the gas tax for the good of its infrastructure?

[Amy Martin]

I apologize. I don't have that figure with me. I know that the gas tax dollars contribute to transportation in Norfolk County and to reserve contributions, but I do not have those numbers with me. I could find that out.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

If you could provide our committee with those figures, we could add them to our report.

I would now like to turn to Ms. Creighton.

Some witnesses have asked us to make the pleasure craft operator card acquisition process more complex. According to some witnesses, it is easy to do the exam online with certain documents or tools on hand, whether it be Google or ChatGPT, today's new tool. Other witnesses reiterated that today.

Can you give us some recommendations to make the exam harder?

My daughter is in the process of getting her driver's licence. She has to go through a year-long process that includes both practical and theoretical courses. Then she'll have a learners' permit for one year, during which a four-point demerit regime will apply. It's quite a process to be allowed to drive a vehicle on the road.

How is driving a boat on the water different from driving a vehicle on the road?

What recommendations would you make to the committee in that regard?

[Margaret Creighton]

I did not have interpretation. I'm sorry that I didn't understand everything.

I haven't had the opportunity to speak French in quite some time. I apologize.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

It's very important to have interpretation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

It's an important question.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Is the interpretation working now?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Hold on, Monsieur Lauzon. What's important is whether Ms. Creighton can hear us.

I'll just say a few words in French to confirm that you can hear the interpretation. Is it working on your end, Ms. Creighton?

Did you get any of that in English, Ms. Creighton?

[Margaret Creighton]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I'm thinking it might be what you've selected on your screen. I'm going to ask the clerk to work with you quickly to make sure that you've selected the appropriate channel on your device so that Monsieur Lauzon can ask you his question.

Colleagues, we'll suspend as the clerk sorts out the audiovisual issues with Ms. Creighton.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I'll call this meeting back to order.

Thank you, Ms. Creighton, as well as our other witnesses, for your patience. I think we've sorted everything out.

Mr. Lauzon, your time is starting over.

The floor is yours.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Okay. I have to remember my question.

Good afternoon, Ms. Creighton.

As I explained earlier, some witnesses, when making recommendations to the committee, said that the process for obtaining the pleasure craft operator card needed to be more complex in order to ensure the safety of those living along shores.

Witnesses told us that it was easy to do the exam online and that there was no need to study. Some witnesses told us that it could be done as an open-book exam. Others told us that tools like Google could be used. I would add that people could now use ChatGPT.

What recommendations would you make to our committee to improve the process and make it harder to obtain the pleasure craft operator card?

Earlier, I compared it with obtaining a driver's licence for vehicles. The first step is the learners' permit. The learner must be accompanied by an experienced driver. The number of allowable demerit points is also lower for the learner. There is a demerit point system based on the type of licence. Driving courses are also mandatory, both theoretical and practical. Altogether, the process to get a learners' permit takes about 12 months—14 months if you start taking courses before you turn 16.

I don't want to go that far, but would you recommend requiring in-person or online driving courses and better supervision for exams, in addition to some other elements to improve the process? Could you speak to that?

[Margaret Creighton]

That's an excellent question, and it's one I've thought about for a long time.

I really like what Sergeant Moffatt said. His recommendation is to step up the whole process. Writing the PCOC should be in person, and Transport Canada should continue to publish their safe boating brochure. Ideally, it would be great to have on-water experience included in that test. Can you imagine writing a driver's test and not actually getting out on the road, practising and learning with someone?

When you think about the number of fatalities that Sergeant Moffatt mentioned, from a moral perspective and not just a safety perspective, we have to take action and set the bar higher for boaters on the water. That will not only protect boaters, but also swimmers in the water and other boaters.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

I would like to share an experience I had. This summer, I went to a reservoir. Marine enforcement officers suddenly appeared and inspected the entire vessel, its compliance, as well as the life jackets. It was all done with mutual respect. They told me that there were six transgressors that same day.

The regulations are in place. Do you think that, in addition to the current regulations, adding personnel could improve boating safety?

[Margaret Creighton]

Education is absolutely critical. That's why I mentioned the videos. Hopefully, some new videos are coming from Transport Canada.

I don't know if this has been done, but I was checking online and didn't see animated videos that target a younger audience. They could say to their mom and dad, “I think you just passed on the wrong side.” Children are very smart. Having some kind of animated video for them, and for teenagers and adults, would be a good idea.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you very much, Ms. Creighton.

Sergeant Moffatt, I have a quick question for you.

We're looking for specific recommendations to strengthen the regulations. I am pleased that you are aware that we cannot go too far when it comes to imposing the wearing of life jackets.

Is it possible to send the committee a list of your recommendations? We could study them and, if there is consensus, include them among the recommendations in our report.

[Sgt Dave Moffatt]

Do you want a yes or no, or can I explain myself?

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

You can speak for 10 seconds. My colleagues have big smiles.

[Sgt Dave Moffatt]

I see that red card.