Transport Committee on Nov. 7th, 2024

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to continue in the same vein.

Ms. Mercier‑Blais, my question is for you, but Mr. Moffat may be able to answer as well.

In my experience, when you want to enforce a regulation, you have to post it. Mr. Moffat, please correct me if I'm wrong. The normal approach is to post signs near boat launches or at marinas, but mostly to install buoys.

Is that correct?

[Sgt Dave Moffatt]

If a regulation is in the vessel operation restriction regulations under one of the schedules, that is good enough. We talk to the municipalities and say they have to educate their people if they want them to learn and respect the rules on the water. We ask that signs be put up, but if it's in black-and-white writing, the regulation can be used.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I find that interesting. So even though notice is normally given through buoys on the surface of the water, as long as the regulation is posted on shorelines or at other points of entry, you can still enforce that regulation out on the water.

[Sgt Dave Moffatt]

One of the speeding laws in Ontario says that if you're 30 metres from shore, you have to go 10 kilometres an hour. That's not posted everywhere. That is just what people know. It's the same thing with 300 metres. There has to be a huge education piece through social media, commercials, etc., to let our boating public know this law is now in place.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I have another question for you.

The police are not out on the water 24 hours a day, seven days a week, though at times an increased presence is desired. Despite the lack of police oversight, are people generally complying with existing regulations?

[Sgt Dave Moffatt]

That is a very good question.

I'm going to say yes. The majority of boaters just want to be out on the water, to be safe and to enjoy it. When we get to the small lakes, which we do seldom, the first thing we hear is, “Wow, why are you guys here? You're never here.” They don't have life jackets and they don't have the carriage requirements.

We are trying to change that attitude by getting to the small lakes as much as we can. With social media, however, it gets out around the lake quickly, so it doesn't help us much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Sergeant Moffatt.

Next we have Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours. You have two and a half minutes, sir.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'll ask a quick question, and then I'll move the motion I put on notice, assuming this is my last round.

Are we going to have one more round, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

We're actually going to have two more rounds.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Okay. I'll save it for my next round, then.

Both Ms. Creighton and Sergeant Moffatt mentioned the flare program. This has become one of the topics that have received a lot of attention in this study. At a previous meeting, it was mentioned that perhaps there could be a user-pay system whereby boaters pay a deposit on flares. This creates an incentive for them to dispose of them properly and collect the deposit at the end.

I'm wondering if both of you could offer your thoughts on whether such a program would be effective. Perhaps we can start with Sergeant Moffatt.

[Sgt Dave Moffatt]

I watched the video on that yesterday, and I thought it was a great idea. It gives people an incentive to not get rid of them illegally. On that note, as John Gullick mentioned, there have to be bunkers to put the flares in at marinas so they can be stored until CIL can pick them up.

I think it's a great idea, but there's an implementation piece to implement it properly.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Ms. Creighton, go ahead.

[Margaret Creighton]

Yes, I would agree. I think the incentive is excellent.

As a note, I'm not sure if you're aware, but it was in Bill Jerry's email to Transport Canada that in the past, CIL Explosives paid for 40% of the disposal program. Looking at that and comparing it to an incentive program I think would be a good idea.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you very much.

I'll leave it at that, Mr. Chair, and hand it back to you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach. There is one more round for you. You'll be able to move your motion at that time.

Next we will go to Dr. Lewis.

Dr. Lewis, the floor is yours. You have five minutes, please.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

My first question is for Mayor Martin.

During your testimony, you started to speak about the commercial and industrial impact of the two public marinas—Port Rowan and Port Dover—on the community. Can you elaborate on that and share with us the historical significance of those two marinas?

[Amy Martin]

The boating industry in Port Dover specifically, as I noted, had at one time the largest freshwater fishing fleet in all of Canada and it's still active today, so there are a lot of jobs and employment factors through the federal commercial fish basin.

I'd also like to touch on some of the large fleets. As an example, Norfolk County and Port Dover are home to McKeil Marine and Lower Lakes Towing, which employ hundreds of local employees. They move, throughout the waterways, heavy liquids or aggregates—throughout the world, actually.

It can all be tied back to starting off with a small commercial fishing industry. That has a lot of spinoffs through the processing and delivery of the fish and the product and through the cargo element.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Can you tell us a bit about what you've heard, if anything, from the residents of Norfolk about the potential privatization of these marinas?

[Amy Martin]

Sure. It was actually up for consideration.

I've been on the Norfolk County Council for only six years, but through my research, I saw that the topic of whether the municipality should continue to own the marinas has come up about 15 times for discussion and debate with council.

As you can understand, it's not a core municipal service in the same way that garbage, waste management and snow removal are. While it's not the norm for a municipality to own these marinas, the community is very tied to the public retention of these assets and knowing that they'll be there for years to come.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you for that.

My next question is for Ms. Creighton. Thank you for being here today and thank you for your passionate advocacy of our community marinas.

I'd like you to speak to the importance of the Port Dover Harbour Marina to the Norfolk community and why you have been working so hard to keep it going.

[Margaret Creighton]

Thank you, Ms. Lewis.

Back in 2007, the transfer from the federal government to Norfolk County occurred, and shortly after that—actually, within a year—Norfolk County was looking at possibly leasing it to a developer, with the intention of them owning it down the road.

As I mentioned earlier, Norfolk County, particularly Port Rowan and Port Dover, has a very big and long marine history. When you see that in a community—and because our community is right on the north shore of Lake Erie, we see the water every day—the link to the water is very powerful. Protecting the marina for the public as an asset, allowing access to the marina and the waterfront, is extremely important for members of the community and for Norfolk County at large.

Just so you know, even though just over 50% of the slip renters at the marina are from outside of Norfolk County, nothing has ever been mentioned about daily rampage and seasonal rampage. These are people who use the marina to take down a small fishing boat, launch it in the morning and come back in the evening. Those statistics are not mentioned. It is one of the few public accesses to the waterfront for those people. There is a very important link to the community.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

I have a quick question for you, Mayor Martin. I want you to speak to whether it is financially viable to keep the marinas on the public purse rather than privatizing them.

What are the issues? What are the expenses that led to considering privatization? Why was it even put on the table?

Answer in the few minutes you have.

[Amy Martin]

It depends on what the municipality wants to charge. Do we want to make it a for-profit business?

We're up against dredging fees, we're up against the seawall and we're up against the replacement of equipment. Through the neglect of those things over the years, Port Dover, specifically, has about $20 million in capital and outstanding assets that are under review now. We don't want to put that burden on the property tax ratepayers of this community.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mayor Martin and Dr. Lewis.

Next we have Mr. Badawey.

Mr. Badawey, the floor is yours. You have five minutes, sir.