Transport Committee on Oct. 9th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 10 of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, September 18, 2025, the committee is resuming its study on the changing landscape of truck drivers in Canada.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. I'd like to take a few minutes to comment for the benefit of our witnesses and members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic, and please mute yourself when you are not speaking. For those on Zoom, at the bottom of your screen you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation: floor, English or French. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

This is a reminder that all comments should be addressed through the chair. For members in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. For members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function if you wish to get the attention of the clerk or the chair. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can. We appreciate your patience and understanding in this regard.

Before I welcome our witnesses, I want to share an important piece of information. I have two lovely placards that my son made for me. This one is the yellow placard. When you have 15 seconds left in your time, I will raise it. If I raise the red one, it means that you are out of time and that I will have the unfortunate job of cutting you off. I do not like to do it, but I do it for the benefit of our members, who all have a fixed amount of question time.

With that, colleagues, I'd like to welcome our witnesses for today.

From the Atlantic Provinces Trucking Association, we have Chris McKee, executive director. Welcome to you, sir.

From Spring Creek Carriers Inc., we have the president, Mark Bylsma, who is chair of the Ontario Trucking Association.

Finally, we welcome the vice president of Transport St‑Pamphile Inc., Véronique Gagnon.

We'll start with our opening remarks.

For that, I'll turn the floor over to you, Mr. McKee. You have five minutes, sir.

[Chris McKee, Executive Director, Atlantic Provinces Trucking Association]

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, good morning. Thank you for allowing me to appear before you today.

My name is Chris McKee, and I am here on behalf of the members of the Atlantic Provinces Trucking Association. We are a privately funded non-profit group representing about 340 member companies that employ tens of thousands of Canadians across the Atlantic provinces. We are proud to be one of seven provincial associations that make up the Canadian Trucking Alliance.

I appear before you this morning because our members are suffering under the truck driver misclassification scheme that's proliferating in our industry, known as “Driver Inc.” Many of these members are generational family businesses, both large and small, that are now facing an existential crisis. Our members are being punished for doing things the right way, for being good corporate citizens.

Driver Inc. has weakened our industry from a safety, labour and competitive standpoint. This is a crisis of fairness, safety and the rule of law: If you follow the law, you lose; if you cheat, you win. Right now in Canada’s trucking industry, the cheaters are winning.

In Atlantic Canada, we are witnessing carriers downsizing fleets and reducing truck counts. We are seeing them pause or scale back employee benefits, such as health and dental benefits and RRSP contributions. In worst-case scenarios, they are laying off staff just to stay afloat and to compete against the bad actors that are flooding our marketplace.

As you've heard from witnesses who appeared before this committee earlier in the week, in the simplest terms, Driver Inc. is an illegal model whereby companies misclassify drivers as independent contractors instead of as employees. Drivers are often coerced into incorporating themselves, even though they drive company trucks and the company pays for their fuel, insurance and maintenance. Under the Canada Labour Code, those individuals are clearly defined as employees, not contractors.

Let's call it what it is: Driver Inc. is payroll fraud, tax fraud and labour fraud. This scheme allows companies to avoid paying payroll taxes like CPP and EI, costing Ottawa billions of dollars a year. They avoid labour obligations, such as overtime, holidays and paid leave. They avoid workers' compensation premiums, leaving drivers unprotected in the event of injury.

We estimate that these firms can undercut legitimate carriers by 25% to 30% per driver and avoid a payroll burden. This translates to between $20,000 and $30,000 per year per driver.

The perceived benefit to drivers is also deeply concerning. The continued moratorium on T4As removes accountability and has enabled a widespread underground economy to thrive in our sector.

Our members are not afraid of healthy competition. They are not losing because they're inefficient. They're losing because they follow the law. Rates are being driven to unsustainable levels, eroding profitability for compliant carriers.

In fact, one carrier I recently spoke with a few days ago just lost a major contract. The competing carrier that took the contract was quoting rates that have not been seen since the 1990s. This is how cheap these guys are, coming in and taking business from compliant companies.

As you also heard this week, training and safety standards are collapsing. As these operators cut corners on wages, they also cut corners on maintenance and compliance, and it is making our highways less safe.

Governments are losing millions annually and employment standards are eroding. Wages collapse and the driver shortage worsens because good people don't want to join an industry in which the rule-breakers are calling the shots. Every time a Driver Inc. company wins a contract, a legitimate Canadian business loses, and so do their workers, our communities and our tax base.

This committee does not need to invent new tools. They already exist. The government just needs to use them.

Our recommendations are aligned with those of our colleagues at the Canadian Trucking Alliance. We ask that you lift the T4A moratorium immediately, provide further resources to the CRA and ESDC to hire auditors, and continue to encourage information sharing among federal departments. We ask that you eliminate Drive Inc. fleets from government and Crown contracts, bar non-compliant carriers from immigration and training programs through the use of preferred and trusted employer models, and accelerate the work that Transport Canada is doing on a national carrier database for full transparency.

The bad actors are thriving, and they're expanding into Atlantic Canada. They're threatening the survival of compliant fleets, hollowing out our tax base and putting our public safety at risk.

Trucking is vital to our regional economy. We already face higher costs than many of our peers, longer empty miles and higher fuel prices. This is just another part of a perfect storm that is impacting our fleets.

It's time for Canada to take the same elbows-up approach on this issue that we've taken in trade and competitiveness: defending those who play by the rules, standing up for fairness and refusing to let the lawbreakers elbow their way to the front of the line.

Thank you very much for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. McKee.

Next we'll go to Mr. Bylsma.

Mr. Bylsma, the floor is yours for five minutes, sir.

[Mark Bylsma, President, Spring Creek Carriers Inc.]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning. I'd like to thank the committee for giving the crisis of Driver Inc. the time it deserves today.

My name is Mark Bylsma. I am the president of Spring Creek Carriers and the current chair of the Ontario Trucking Association.

Spring Creek is located in Beamsville, Ontario, in the riding of Niagara West. We operate approximately 40 trucks, primarily hauling less than truckload freight between the U.S. and Canada.

We're a first-generation family business and we're celebrating 30 years of business this year. It is sad to say that we will not be a second-generation family business. Like many of our colleagues and many other family trucking companies, we’ve told our kids to find a career in a different industry, because unlike 30 years ago, there’s no future for trucking in Canada.

The sole reason for this last statement is summarized by these two words: Driver Inc. In my remarks, I'm going to assume that you have read the CTA report and costing appendix, as it explains this crisis very well, along with our recommendations.

As an owner, I've done the math. As a relatively small carrier, if I utilize the illegal Driver Inc. model just for tax purposes, not including the additional shortcuts and scams the CTA has summarized in their report, we would save, conservatively, $1.5 million per year in payroll taxes and employee benefits like vacations, overtime and sick days. When you compare that to my revenue of under $15 million, you can see that this is more than 10%. Most people in our industry don't make 10% in a good year.

I'm going to get a little granular in some numbers. My average revenue per shipment last year was $650. The Driver Inc. crowd can do that for $585, and in today's economic climate I'll lose an order over $10. Imagine if my customers could save $65. They wouldn't even call me again.

This isn’t about the Driver Inc. crowd being smarter and more efficient. It's about stealing $65 on every order. It's about stealing $1.5 million from the Canadian people and from our government every year. Those numbers are small in comparison to the overall problem, because Spring Creek is small in comparison to the overall industry. The billions of dollars outlined in the CTA package are not made up. They're not fabricated.

I am and will forever be a capitalist. Only the strong survive. “Laissez-faire” is what I've always said. What does laissez-faire mean? It's defined as a hands-off approach in economics and leadership that advocates for minimal government intervention or supervision to allow individuals and markets to operate freely, but our government has gone too far. They are allowing individuals and markets to break every conceivable law to line their own pockets: tax evasion, labour and immigration abuse, crime, corruption, and the list goes on.

As a member company of the CTA and the OTA, Spring Creek believes in employee rights and employee standards, and we believe in an environment of fair competition where everyone plays by the same rules. I want to stress that these are not rules that our associations or I have made up. These are rules set out by our government. This committee needs to recommend ways to stop those who don’t believe in these things and to restore law and order to our industry.

This is the tip of the iceberg. We are in crisis, and if nothing is done today, this lawlessness will decimate our industry and this contagious disease will spread out of control throughout all sectors. Our government, I would say, is complicit in this. By not doing anything, by not enforcing your own legislation, you've been saying and are continuing to say that Driver Inc. is okay and that it's acceptable to break the laws of our land.

If the government doesn't do anything, my company will fail. If we fail, it's not because we weren't efficient. It’s not because we were lazy or didn’t work hard. On the contrary, we have been forced to be extremely efficient just to survive to see today. Our business was built on abiding by the laws of the land, with honesty and accountability. This is what our nation was built on, but this new culture of corruption being allowed to proliferate within our industry is what my business and this country will die from.

We need the federal government to get in the game; protect employee rights; help the provinces—and the federal government, for that matter—collect their fair share of income tax, employee health tax, payroll taxes, etc.; follow the recommendations by the CTA report; and rid our industry of the lawlessness that has taken it over.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Bylsma.

Ms. Gagnon, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Véronique Gagnon, Vice-President, Transport St-Pamphile Inc.]

Thank you and hello, Mr. Chair.

Let me introduce myself. My name is Véronique Gagnon. I am co-owner of Transport St‑Pamphile, a company that has been operating trucks with flatbed trailers since 1948. I am the third generation at Transport St‑Pamphile.

Being a truck driver is not just a career choice. It's a vocation. It's a way of life. For some time now, illegal drivers have been appearing on our roads, creating chaos both in terms of road safety and in our industry, trucking.

While the prices of trucks and trailers are skyrocketing, and insurance, parts, tires and labour have all increased, we are being overtaken by these individuals who are pulling the rug out from under us.

Ridiculous rates show their lack of understanding of operating costs in the transportation industry. Their actions bring shame to our profession, which should be carried out with the utmost professionalism and a strong sense of belonging.

A professional driver anticipates and predicts what is coming. Their skills enable them to avoid the worst every day. These people have neither knowledge nor respect for those with whom they share the road.

Our vehicles get hit in truck stops, but we are never compensated for the damage caused. When they can, they take advantage of our stops at pumps to steal fuel from us. They don't know how their trucks work. Let me give you an example. One of my drivers had to open the hood of one of their trucks at customs because the customs officer asked him to open the hood. The driver didn't know how to open the hood of his truck. My driver had to help him so that he could then go through customs himself. Mr. Chair, opening the hood is a mandatory step every morning during the pre-trip inspection.

We have also seen people pour windshield washer fluid on the ground to try to get traction on icy roads. That's not how the profession works. These people lack knowledge. They are dangerous, they don't respect driving hours, they don't pay their fees, they don't maintain their equipment, they aren't insured and they're all underpaid. All of these factors allow them to reduce their rates, which leads us, the proud carriers who respect the law and other road users, straight into a wall.

We, the carriers who pay our taxes, have a strong sense of belonging and still believe in the internal solidarity of the profession. By tolerating these actions, you are discouraging those who are passionate about transportation. We are losing more and more good drivers who don't want to share the road with these people. This must stop today, Mr. Chair.

You need to visit the companies to ensure that these people have the necessary skills to be truck drivers. When renewing licence plates, why not require proof of adequate insurance? These people are not insured on the road.

We, who have been working in transportation for decades, need your financial support, for one thing, because we didn't bring this situation upon ourselves, and it's putting our businesses under. Rather, you imposed it on us.

Mr. Chair, what will become of us? Is there any way out of this nightmare?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Ms. Gagnon.

We'll begin today's line of questioning with Mr. Albas.

Mr. Albas, the floor is yours. You have six minutes, sir.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses for coming.

To be brutally honest with you, I have to say that, after 10 years of successive Liberal failures on this file, Canadian lives and livelihoods are at risk. I think you've painted that picture. Conservatives want to restore your industry, restore safety to our streets and crack down on these bad actors, including the people who are allowing this to happen.

I'm going to start my questions with Mr. McKee, who is here on behalf of the Atlantic Provinces Trucking Association.

In our last committee meeting, we heard that the Liberal government's policies, like those on immigration, were fuelling Driver Inc. Is that happening in your experience?

Second, you mentioned Crown corporations and government contracting with Driver Inc. Is that the provincial government? Is that the federal government? Please give us some concrete examples.

[Chris McKee]

In terms of labour fraud in the Atlantic provinces, the preliminary data we are looking at shows that it's not as prevalent in the Atlantic provinces as it is in other provinces in this country. We have preferred-employer programs at the provincial level in the Atlantic provinces, which means that after employers go through a robust screening process, they are put to the front of the line for provincial nominee programs, for the Atlantic immigration program and for the temporary foreign worker program.

While there is evidence of immigration fraud and indentured servitude in this industry—I'm not disputing that—we feel that in the Atlantic provinces it's not as prevalent. Where we're really seeing the issue is with the guys and fleets coming in from other jurisdictions to basically poach, to be blunt, lanes from our compliant carriers.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

You said that Crown corporations and governments are utilizing Driver Inc. and fuelling it. Can you give me a concrete example, please?

[Chris McKee]

I wouldn't say I have a concrete example. It's anecdotal at this point, but we really feel there's no screening process with the federal government or provincial governments to ensure that Crown corporations are not utilizing this model. We do know, from many of our members, that Canada Post is one organization that seems to be utilizing Driver Inc. companies when possible in order to save money. We all know Canada Post is under financial pressure.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

We'll need to talk about that more, but I have limited time.

Wayne Long is the secretary of state responsible for the CRA. He says he understands business. He is from Atlantic Canada, from New Brunswick. Have you met with him about your concerns? Has he expressed any concern for your industry?

[Chris McKee]

We have not. We've met with several MPs from both sides of the floor on this issue, but we have not met with Mr. Long.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

What would you tell Mr. Long right now when it comes to the CRA? What does he need to do today?

[Chris McKee]

We need to immediately lift the moratorium on T4As. We need to start creating a paper trail so that we can begin to track these guys—the companies and the drivers—who may be shirking their tax obligations.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you ver much, Mr. Albas.

I'll now turn the floor over to Mr. Muys.

Mr. Muys, the floor is yours. You have three minutes, sir.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook—Brant North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Bylsma.

The Liberals have talked about cracking down on this for years, and the problem is festering. Actually, it's at a crisis point now, and Conservatives want to fix it.

When you talked about your business and said it's not going to succeed to a second generation, you broke down the numbers very nicely, which I think paint a very stark picture. My constituency office is 30 minutes from your shop, so I know that this is a huge issue in that area and throughout Ontario. What is the single biggest failure of federal enforcement that has allowed this to persist for this long?

[Mark Bylsma]

My presentation was mostly about the numbers, so I think the biggest thing the federal government can do is go through the CRA. As my colleague just said, lift the moratorium on the T4As. What we need to do is start allowing a paper trail to occur so the government can find the bad actors.

It's not a matter of spending more money as a government, because the billions of dollars that would be collected by hiring the necessary staff to track these people down and enforce the law would pay for itself and then some. There would be a significant return on investment for the government to go that direction.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook—Brant North, ON]

As a solution, you've mentioned one very obvious one, and there are others. I know there were others in the CTA report as well, which the OTA has been advocating for.

Is this a problem of political will? Is it bureaucratic inertia, or is it simply that the government doesn't understand your industry? You've painted a picture of the economics of it.

[Mark Bylsma]

It's my personal opinion that it's a matter of a lack of political will. We've been chasing this up the chain for probably a decade. This started in 2011 when they put the moratorium on T4As, and it has gotten out of control. Some crafty lawyers and accountants have figured out ways to work around some of the rules for PSBs and that type of thing to create this lawless portion of our industry.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook—Brant North, ON]

It's, as your colleague said, fraud.

[Mark Bylsma]

That's correct—absolute fraud.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook—Brant North, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Muys.

Next we'll go to Mr. Kelloway.

Mr. Kelloway, the floor is yours. You have six minutes, sir.