Evidence of meeting #10 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was companies.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Mike Kelloway Liberal Sydney—Glace Bay, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to the witnesses today and to the previous witnesses from Tuesday. This is an important study, and I'm glad it's being brought to this forum.
Most of my questions will be directed towards Mr. McKee, but I want to get a sense from all three of you on a particular question. Was the move by Harper to deregulate the industry in 2011, in hindsight, a good idea, yes or no?
We can start with Mr. Bylsma.
President, Spring Creek Carriers Inc.
Deregulation is fine. As I said in my presentation, I'm a capitalist. I have no problem with deregulation. The only problem I have is that there's legislation....
I'm part socialist. I know that as a government, you have bills to pay, but we need to collect evenly and equally from everybody. I'm paying CPP, EI, WSIB, employer health taxes, etc., and I'm paying my drivers for 10 sick days, three personal days, bereavement pay, overtime—all of those things. They should be as well, not just billing them as contractors and not paying for any of those employee rights.
President, Spring Creek Carriers Inc.
Absolutely. It's a great idea. I'm a capitalist, but I still believe that we should—
President, Spring Creek Carriers Inc.
We should all pay our fair share. If I'm paying for all those things, so should the Driver Inc. crowd. They're having me for breakfast, lunch and dinner because they're not paying for those things.
I'm not looking for a handout. I used the number $1.5 million—
Liberal
Mike Kelloway Liberal Sydney—Glace Bay, NS
Thank you, sir. I don't have that much time. I apologize. I wish I had more time.
Mr. McKee, was it a good idea?
Executive Director, Atlantic Provinces Trucking Association
I echo the comments of my colleague.
As I said in my statement, our carriers are not losing because they're inefficient. They welcome healthy competition. We just want a level playing field. We want the laws that are in place enforced. That's it.
Vice-President, Transport St-Pamphile Inc.
I agree with my colleagues. I think it was indeed a good idea. Everything has been said.
Liberal
Mike Kelloway Liberal Sydney—Glace Bay, NS
With the last session, and now with this session, we've been learning that there are definitive roles for industry. The provincial governments have major roles. As you said, you put forward some recommendations in terms of Revenue Canada. This was brought up in the last meeting.
I want to go back to Mr. McKee about a news release on his website. It says, “Provinces and territories have a key role to play in the oversight of the industry, and it can’t come fast enough.” What role do they play and how can they address this issue as provincial governments?
I appreciate that we're here. It's a federal committee, and you're talking about the existing roles that need to be tightened considerably, particularly with the CRA. However, there's a whole other realm: provincial governments and their responsibility. As a case in point, we heard in the last meeting that individuals are getting two days of training, then being put on a transfer truck. How that happens in any provincial regime is astonishing to me.
Could you speak about the provincial side of things? You can dovetail it into the federal side of things, if you like.
Executive Director, Atlantic Provinces Trucking Association
Sure. Thank you.
From a provincial perspective, we're having some measure of success with some of our provinces out east when it comes to truck driver training. There's oversight of the training schools in each province.
There has to be a solid system in place to ensure good outcomes. We require our provinces—whether it be the enforcement people or our national safety code auditors through the CCMTA—to work closely with law enforcement and ESDC auditors to conduct more roadside blitzes and focus on the roadside enforcement of this issue, because that's how we're going to catch a lot of these guys.
Liberal
Mike Kelloway Liberal Sydney—Glace Bay, NS
We heard from some of the witnesses on Tuesday that the Quebec government is not doing enough to enforce laws, ensure proper training and crack down on the issue. Do the inactions in Quebec impact safety in Atlantic Canada?
Executive Director, Atlantic Provinces Trucking Association
I don't want to speak for my colleagues in Quebec, and I'm not well versed enough on what is not being done in Quebec to point a finger, but I will say that any inaction, whether in Quebec or Ontario, is impacting safety standards on New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland highways, absolutely.
Liberal
Mike Kelloway Liberal Sydney—Glace Bay, NS
I ask because everything is interconnected.
Maybe we can go to Ms. Gagnon.
Ms. Gagnon, we heard testimony and some stories, which previous witnesses brought up, about training, development and safety in Quebec. For Quebeckers, this has to be terrifying given the people who drive the trucks—the people who are on the roads. They have it in their minds that the individual behind the wheel needs the requisite hours and training.
Can you speak about the anxiety you face in your industry, but also about the people on the roads in your province?
Vice-President, Transport St-Pamphile Inc.
It is very stressful for us and our employees to share the road with these people. As I said in my opening remarks, you have to understand the road. These people don't understand the road. It's clear that they're there to do a job, and it seems that someone simply found one for them; however, as I said earlier, this is a vocation. Most truckers have had this profession ingrained in them since they were young. They grow up with respect for others on the road.
Right now, we have people who don't obey the law in poorly maintained vehicles, which often causes accidents or breakdowns that congest the roads. They don't understand road signs, either.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you, Ms. Gagnon. Unfortunately, there is no more time for comments.
I now give the floor to Mr. Barsalou‑Duval for six minutes.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair
Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.
This study is really important. People are dying on the roads, businesses are closing and people with honest jobs are losing them. It's sad to see, and it's entirely due to the government's inaction, which could change things simply by enforcing the laws.
I would like to pick up where the conversation left off. A few moments ago, one of the government representatives echoed what the Minister of Transport, Mr. MacKinnon, said yesterday. Simply put, he said that it was up to Quebec alone to resolve the situation and that it wasn't a federal issue. That was pretty much the message he conveyed yesterday, so that's what my Liberal colleagues are trying to push right now. They're saying that it's Quebec's fault.
I have a question for you, Ms. Gagnon. Do most of the at-fault truck drivers come from Quebec?
Vice-President, Transport St-Pamphile Inc.
No, most of the at-fault truck drivers come from Ontario.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Thank you very much, Ms. Gagnon.
Vice-President, Transport St-Pamphile Inc.
In fact, that's what we're seeing.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
This isn't about blaming Ontario, but about recognizing the reality of the situation.
I have another question, and it's for all three of you. You come from three different regions: Ms. Gagnon is from Quebec, Mr. McKee is from the Atlantic region and Mr. Bylsma is from Ontario. Based on your testimony, I understand that you all face the same problem, namely the presence of these Driver Inc. truckers who don't comply with the law. Is that correct?
What do you think, Ms. Gagnon?