Evidence of meeting #18 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was drivers.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Chi Nguyen Liberal Spadina—Harbourfront, ON
Thank you very much.
Stacey, did you have anything to add to that?
Owner, 6S Trinity Transport Ltd.
I just have to add, Chair, that it starts at the top, from shippers and receivers knowing who's coming in their door and being accountable. Trucking company owners and freight brokers all need to do more than just worrying about the bottom dollar. They need to pay for good service and know that they're getting a quality driver who comes through their shipping and receiving.
Liberal
Chi Nguyen Liberal Spadina—Harbourfront, ON
I also want to ask a bit about training. I know that's not a role that we play here, but if we think about what you'd like to see as national standards—more of that work—is there anything else you'd like to suggest we consider as we continue this?
Operations Manager, Ludwig Transport Limited
MELT training is 103.5 hours. For the people I put through training, I add in an additional 30. That's just for basic training, before they get their licence. I pay for that myself. Then I bring people in, and they run with one of my drivers, who is a trainer himself, for four to six weeks, until my trainer is comfortable with that person being able to do the job properly. If the potential driver does not have it by that time and if we think they have the potential, we'll send them back to school. If we really don't think this is the lifestyle for them, then we'll suggest that a change of career may be in order.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much, Mr. Ludwig, and thank you, MP Nguyen.
Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
You both shared with us the challenges you face. You also mentioned how this phenomenon was truly a horror on the roads and really detrimental to safety.
Has this phenomenon also had an impact on your sales figures? If nothing is done, to what extent do you think you can pass on your businesses to the next generation? How long do you think you can last like this?
Mr. Hall, you may begin.
President, J&R Hall Transport Inc.
What is happening and its effect on our business from the dollar point of view is that the less scrupulous carriers are driving rates down. They'll go to our best customers and convince them that they can do this for less. Our best customers put pressure on us. They don't necessarily walk, but they put pressure on us and say that XYZ is doing this for $500 less. Okay, then, I'll do it for $250 less.
At the end of the day, we need our customers to be our business partners. We need to be profitable. Profit in the trucking industry seems to be a bad word. Customers will pay for it if there aren't people out there cutting corners and offering to do it for less.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Mr. Ludwig, do you have anything to add?
Operations Manager, Ludwig Transport Limited
Our business will probably not be here by the end of 2027 if the problems of Driver Inc. and road safety are not solved. It's just the simple economic numbers.
We burned our war chest through this past economic downturn. The unreasonable pressure from Driver Inc. fleets is pretty much unbearable. I just don't see a fiscal way forward beyond this for too much longer. There's no point in throwing good money after bad.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
In that case, how do you explain that you, who are carriers with good safety ratings, are constantly inspected, while it seems that no effort is made to catch those who operate under the Driver Inc. model?
We even have communications from the federal government stating that the approach in this area is educational. Do you think the federal government’s approach is the right one?
Operations Manager, Ludwig Transport Limited
Increased federal guidelines are the right way to go. Let the provinces follow, but hold the provinces accountable to meet the federal standards.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much, Mr. Ludwig.
Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.
Next, we'll go to Mr. Lawrence.
The floor is yours. You have five minutes, sir.
January 28th, 2026 / 5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON
Thank you.
I'll start with you, Ms. Horlings, and carry on from my colleague's questions.
You have said that the lack of carriers' need for a bond or insurance is inhibiting the ability to have safe vehicles. In general, my principle with respect to federalism is national where necessary and provincial where possible. I very much think that in this case, we need national involvement: national data, national licensing and perhaps national insurance.
Would you agree with those comments? If so, please tell me why.
Owner, 6S Trinity Transport Ltd.
Yes, I agree with those comments, even in terms of a surety bond and coordinating with the United States FMCSA. If a broker decides not to pay a trucking company in the U.S. and I try to go after their bond and collect, sometimes I will get a hard no, because it delivered on the Canadian side or it picked up on the Canadian side. From a national standpoint, absolutely, these things need to be in place.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON
Based on what you just said, if you were making a claim, it would be easier to collect from a U.S. carrier than it would be from a Canadian carrier. Did I misunderstand that?
Owner, 6S Trinity Transport Ltd.
Technically, yes, it would be easier, because there's nothing in place in Canada that protects the collection of money. With the U.S., at least there's a surety bond that allows us to try to collect.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON
Thank you very much for that. That's some very helpful testimony.
At this point, Mr. Hall and Mr. Ludwig, I'll turn to you.
Mr. Ludwig, thank you for your very candid conversation. It can't be easy to say the words that you just said.
I suspect that while Driver Inc. is an issue—don't get me wrong—it's also often a symptom. It's not just the missing out on CPP and other things that is actually doing it. I believe there's also a greater association with things like not doing proper training and not doing proper vehicle maintenance. Would either of you agree with that?
Operations Manager, Ludwig Transport Limited
You, sir, are absolutely correct.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON
Thank you very much.
The other thing, Mr. Ludwig, is that your testimony really brought it home to me that as much as these conversations are necessary, now is really the time for action, and that if the federal government doesn't take action within a reasonable time, irreparable harm will be done to your very important industry.
Would you also agree with that? Could you expand on some of the potential impacts?
Operations Manager, Ludwig Transport Limited
Yes, absolutely. The choice I face today, as we move forward and, as I've said, probably to the end of 2027, is that if we do nothing, I have to decide whether my company is going to continue. If it is, and you don't do anything, I have to go with the Driver Inc. model. Otherwise, I'm done. I just can't make enough money to stay alive.
Conservative