Evidence of meeting #26 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was post.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Dan Muys Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook—Brant North, ON
Okay.
You also talked about losing business to New York and New Jersey. New York City on its own has the same GDP as all of Canada. Obviously, it's massive. What can the Government of Canada be doing to help reverse this trend, in your view?
Chief Executive Officer, Melford Atlantic Gateway
In my opinion, the east coast needs big, efficient infrastructure to be able to make sure they can efficiently handle the large vessels. If not, the vessels will simply sail by and go to New York. If you have the infrastructure to handle the big vessels, it provides the ability to access markets that they don't today. Those big ships go to multiple places throughout the world, reducing the transit costs for shippers.
Conservative
Dan Muys Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook—Brant North, ON
For Canadian shippers at a time of diversification.... Okay.
Mr. Gooch, I want to read a quote from your association: Canada needs “streamlined project reviews” to make major infrastructure happen “much more quickly”.
Where are we at today in terms of whether the federal processes that exist currently are an impediment to that happening and to slowing the modernization and expansion of ports?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Association of Canadian Port Authorities
I think there's a lot more work to be done. I will say that our individual members that have projects are pretty deeply engaged. Some of them are involved in the Major Projects Office already.
I don't have a lot of insight into what's being done there, but I do know that we are hearing the right things from the Impact Assessment Agency and from the Minister of Transport about recognizing the need to speed things up, and not just at those major projects. That really was our biggest concern, or a question mark, I guess, in terms of the approach.
Conservative
Dan Muys Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook—Brant North, ON
Can you quantify, at least comparatively? The obviously slow process is going to go to what sort of speed? What are you hearing?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Association of Canadian Port Authorities
I'm not sure that we've seen enough. I know that my members probably have some views, given that they're actually involved in conversations that I'm not part of. There is definitely more work to be done to ensure the vision we're hearing about is translated into much more improved project times.
Conservative
Dan Muys Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook—Brant North, ON
Hopefully, they're fast enough.
Let me have a bit of a speculative question, just because we had the minister here and I think he intimated that there may be a ports bill coming. I may be reading between the lines a bit, although I don't think that much. What would you like to see in that if you had your wish list?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Association of Canadian Port Authorities
Well, we can certainly share this. We've shared with the Department of Transport and the minister's office our views on Bill C-33 and the things we'd like to see carried forward.
I'd say that a 12-month deadline on board appointments is an easy fix. Having directors who are waiting for three, four or five years to find out if they're going to be on a board is not working. Also, I know that there were some measures in there that were welcomed by our members in Quebec on greater collaboration amongst ports.
As well, we don't know that the financial flexibility we're looking for needs to be dealt with in legislation, but legislation to improve the borrowing process—anything that can improve the borrowing process—I think would be welcome.
Conservative
Dan Muys Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook—Brant North, ON
Other than a deadline of 12 months on board appointments, what other elements of Bill C-33 do you think are worth carrying forward?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Association of Canadian Port Authorities
I'd say that those were probably the main ones.
I think there were some things that weren't dealt with in the bill. On the rules around capitalization of subsidiaries and joint ventures, we did put in some suggestions on that. For example, we have a port member who says that the limits on how they can capitalize a joint venture, a subsidiary, mean that they have an engagement with one first nation but they wouldn't be able to do another one until greater flexibility is provided there.
Subsidiaries today do provide a lot of flexibility, but I know that there are some rather specific suggestions that we'd be happy to share with the committee.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you.
Finally for today, I'll turn the floor over to Ms. Nguyen.
You have five minutes, please.
Liberal
Chi Nguyen Liberal Spadina—Harbourfront, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for joining us today.
I will ask my questions in English. Please excuse me for that.
We're learning a lot in this study. When we're thinking about a whole-of-systems approach to this work—the smaller-sized ports, medium-sized ports, as well as the big players—could you each share a bit about how red tape and intergovernmental challenges may contribute to any pain points you're seeing in the system?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Association of Canadian Port Authorities
We spoke earlier about greater agility for the Canada Border Services Agency to respond to opportunities. I think it would be worthwhile to hear from them if you haven't already.
The way the work is shared, Transport Canada really has the economic policy mandate there, and CBSA sees it very much as an implementer. In terms of how that relationship works, we've certainly seen them working together more closely, but greater nimbleness for CBSA to be able to respond to challenges.... I will say that they've had a lot thrown at them over the last couple of years: auto theft, the border issues enforcement. I know that sometimes money is a part of it, and they need some help, which they've been getting, but they need more.
President and General Manager, Desgagnés Transarctik Inc.
I'll voice three separate examples that we've lived through in the last 12 months.
First, when it comes time to repair wharves or to do a wharf construction, we're seeing that, for port authorities and different entities, it's a 10-year-plus process. That is significantly true.
Second, it's critical for us to maximize the voyages coming in, and the water depth. We're seeing a two- to three-year process to obtain authorizations for dredging.
Third, regarding the development of land or hinterland adjacent to ports, we're talking about two- to three-year processes for permitting, development and construction. That is very long. It is lacking in terms of agility and proactivity.
What we're seeing is this: If the corridors funding does transcend...and things do get to the execution stage.... We need faster processing for everything this entails, in terms of construction, dredging, warehouse development, land development, etc.
Chief Executive Officer, Melford Atlantic Gateway
For us, it's a little different. We have all of our permits in place. It was a time-consuming and expensive process, but we have that behind us.
The one example I would give is this: A couple of years ago, it was leaked that we had applied for funding through the NTCF. This appeared in articles in The Globe and Mail and La Presse, I believe. It created expectations among our shareholders and partners. We made the application in 2022. We never received an official yes or no, so...quicker decisions on applications.
Liberal
Chi Nguyen Liberal Spadina—Harbourfront, ON
Thank you.
As we are also making significant defence and security investments, I'd love to hear a bit about how doing this work will strengthen our capacity and our global reputation.
Do you have recommendations, Mr. Gooch, on how we can continue to grow and increase our presence globally?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Association of Canadian Port Authorities
I'm not sure that we have any defence-specific recommendations there. I think we are seeing interest in developing ports, generally. I know a lot of the defence investments are not necessarily going to be co-located with commercial, but a lot can be done by marine.
President and General Manager, Desgagnés Transarctik Inc.
In terms of defence, what we saw in the last, different announcements is dual-use infrastructure. I think that's a very good angle to it. If we're looking at port infrastructure, airports and lay-down areas in the Arctic that have both defence and civil uses, it's definitely a right angle.
Chief Executive Officer, Melford Atlantic Gateway
I'd echo David's response about dual use. We've been approached by two separate groups looking to use our facility for a potential defence-related activity. Without a marginal wharf system, we can't do it.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much.
I want to thank all the witnesses, who took the time to appear before us today and contribute to this very important study. I wish safe travels home to each and every one of them.
Colleagues, this meeting is adjourned.