Transport Committee on Aug. 1st, 2025

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you, Minister, for your statement.

Minister, with the failure of this Liberal Prime Minister to get a trade deal for Canadians to avoid the unjustified U.S. tariffs, and at a time when Canadian workers and industries are facing deep uncertainty, do you support the decision of BC Ferries to give jobs to Beijing workers, thereby preferring foreign workers over Canadian workers, yes or no?

[Gregor Robertson, Liberal, Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC]

I'm very disappointed by the decision and the fact that this procurement will not benefit as many Canadian workers as we all wish it would. I think that disappointment is shared widely across the country.

That said, these ferries need to get built. They need to be in service for the people of B.C., as member of Parliament Will Greaves said earlier. This is really critical investment that needs to happen as soon as possible. We can take some solace in the investment that is happening in Canadian jobs around the maintenance and around the terminals. It is a significant investment, but I think we're all disappointed that the procurement went to shipyards overseas.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Minister, my question asked for a yes or no answer. It was, essentially, whether or not you support this decision.

In addition, I would like to ask a question pertaining to the fact that BC Ferries said that it actually consulted with your government before signing the contract with the Chinese state-owned shipyard, yet you deny that your government and the CIB knew of the contract. Who's telling the truth? Are you, or is BC Ferries telling the truth?

[Gregor Robertson, Liberal, Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC]

Again, Mr. Chair, I was disappointed by this decision. This decision predates my serving in government. It was prior to this last election and certainly prior to my appointment as minister.

The CIB is independent of government and makes investment decisions without political interference, as I said earlier. Secondly, there were no Canadian bids for this work. I'm sure folks around the table...we would all like to see this work happening in Canada. There were no bids for that to happen, and BC Ferries made the decision that it made.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Minister, have you seen the terms of the loan to BC Ferries from the CIB, pertaining to the shipyard in Beijing? Have you seen those terms?

[Gregor Robertson, Liberal, Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC]

I have not seen the specific terms of the agreement.

Again, the CIB is independent. There is no political interference in the decisions made by the board of the CIB, the Canada Infrastructure Bank, around these decisions.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Minister, our government gives the CIB $35 billion of taxpayers' money, so I'm sure that taxpayers expect some sort of oversight. You're telling the public that, as a minister responsible for the Canada Infrastructure Bank, you have not seen the specific terms and conditions of this billion-dollar loan agreement.

[Gregor Robertson, Liberal, Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC]

The Canada Infrastructure Bank is independent of government. It's at arm's length from government. It was funded by the government—$35 billion, as you mentioned—and it is doing business as a bank. The only way that investors, private investment, will have confidence in that bank is if it's independent of political interference.

We certainly see a different story transpiring south of the border, where there is a lot of political interference in the affairs surrounding the government and with arm's-length agencies. That has a destabilizing effect on the market, and on private investment in particular. Having the confidence in the decisions that are being made by an independent board that is not affected by political interference—

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Yes, but Minister, these private investors are investing in the Canadian economy, and section 6 of the CIB mandate promotes the Canadian economy, so there are public funds that are being invested here and you are telling me that, given what has happened, the fact that a foreign company is getting public funds of $1 billion dollars, you have not asked the CEO of the CIB to disclose what other public funds may be going to foreign companies. Is that what you're telling me?

[Gregor Robertson, Liberal, Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC]

To the chair, it's not clear. Is the question about funds to other companies or...?

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Other countries....

[Gregor Robertson, Liberal, Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC]

Other countries beyond the BC Ferries procurement, is that the question?

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Yes. My question, to be clear, is, given what has happened, have you asked the Canada Infrastructure Bank CEO to disclose what other public funds may be going to foreign companies? Since you are so disturbed by what has happened, have you ensured that this is not happening in other situations, yes or no?

[Gregor Robertson, Liberal, Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC]

To the chair, almost all of the investments that have been made public by the Canada Infrastructure Bank are domestic investments in Canadian infrastructure. I spoke a number of times with the CEO of the Infrastructure Bank, as well as the board chair, once I learned of the financing that happened. I've had a number of conversations, and we have several steps forward to make sure that buy Canada is a critical element of the policy that informs the CIB going forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Thank you very much, Dr. Lewis.

Next we go to Ms. Nguyen. Ms. Nguyen, the floor is yours. You have six minutes, please.

[Chi Nguyen, Liberal, Spadina—Harbourfront, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, and deputy minister as well, for joining us today for a really important conversation about the investments for our future.

As we're thinking and talking about this, this decision has been taken. I wonder whether you could talk about tools or other conditional supports, such as domestic content requirements or capacity-building incentives, that could be built into future CIB financing agreements and would allow us to grow our Canadian industry and avoid missing opportunities like this in the future?

[Gregor Robertson, Liberal, Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC]

Certainly, going forward, as I believe the members heard from Minister Freeland, we are making robust efforts to ensure that buy Canada is the clear direction for all of our investments.

With the Canada Infrastructure Bank, effectively, there's policy direction that comes from government. They are an independent agency and manage their affairs as such, but we're in a process now of looking at maximizing Canadian materials, opportunities for Canadian workers and the benefits for Canada in all of their investments going forward, as part of that policy direction that is being renewed.

I know, from Minister Freeland directly, that she is looking at that across the activities of Transport Canada. I'm certainly doing the same with Housing and Infrastructure Canada, looking at that same direction, ensuring that we're doing everything we can, across all of our functions and procurement, to maximize benefit for Canadian workers and Canadian materials. Obviously, there are lots of Canadian materials and workers involved in housing and infrastructure. We certainly want to see significant benefits for steel, aluminum and lumber—Canadian wood—which are all key components in housing and infrastructure procurement and investments.

There are enormous opportunities to scale this up as a country, in similar fashion to what many other countries are doing, given the current trade environment. Much has changed in these last six months, and we have to move urgently. We have to move definitively to make sure we're doing everything we can to benefit Canadians.

[Chi Nguyen, Liberal, Spadina—Harbourfront, ON]

Thank you.

Could you speak a bit about how your department and CIB can work together more collaboratively to make sure that the Canadian companies in those sectors are better positioned to compete for projects, such as the things we're hoping to build and do boldly in our country?

[Gregor Robertson, Liberal, Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC]

Again, as Minister Freeland was mentioning, there's a lot of engagement already, from our respective ministries, with Canadian companies around the opportunities, going forward, with procurement, particularly those that our departments have jurisdiction over.

The Canada Infrastructure Bank is independent of government, much like the Business Development Bank of Canada or the Export Development Bank of Canada. They have to make their decisions through their boards and CEOs. We are able to give policy direction, as government, and we are laying that out very clearly, that future investments....

I put this all in the same context as.... We look at the 102 projects that CIB has funded, and the lion's share of those are investments in Canadian infrastructure that many Canadian businesses, workers and contractors have benefited from. In recent years, we're talking about tens of billions of dollars in benefits for Canadians on the ground, whether they're the Montreal and Calgary airports that are invested in, or whether it's the broadband in Manitoba, Alberta or here in Ontario. We've seen critical mineral infrastructure in Quebec and Labrador, and many investments across the country, including in the steel industry—Algoma Steel, the retrofit that happened there. We've seen many direct investments by the CIB that are benefiting Canadian workers and businesses. We need to see that continue and, if anything, intensify, and do everything we can so those deals benefit Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Nguyen.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you're the next speaker. You have six minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for joining us today.

I'll start with a brief question.

When were you made aware of the Canada Infrastructure Bank's involvement in the BC Ferries plan to have its ships built in China?

[Gregor Robertson, Liberal, Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC]

Thank you for your question.

I became aware on the night of June 11. I was in a committee of the whole meeting with my deputy, Paul Halucha. We found out that night that there had been a deal made between the CIB and BC Ferries.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

When you heard this news, did it occur to you to tell the Canada Infrastructure Bank that it was a bad idea?

[Gregor Robertson, Liberal, Vancouver Fraserview—South Burnaby, BC]

Yes, I spoke with the CEO of the CIB the next morning. I made a call the next morning. We finished the committee of the whole at 11 p.m., I think, that night. The next day I was in a conversation with the CEO of the Infrastructure Bank to find out and to clarify what had happened and what recourse or opportunity there might be to reverse direction on that financing.

After that was a sequence of meetings with the CEO and board chair along those same lines, to see what could be done—or undone, in this case—to maximize the benefit for Canadian workers and shipbuilders. That's when I was informed of the fact that this deal had been advanced earlier in the year and was not to be turned around at that point. The deal had been executed. I had a sequence of meetings around that with the CIB CEO and board.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

As I understand it, you found out on June 11 that the Canada Infrastructure Bank had decided to provide $1 billion in funds for ships to be built in China. Then, on June 12, you met with the president of the Canada Infrastructure Bank, who somehow told you that the agreement had been signed, all decisions had been made and nothing further could be changed at that point. Later, on June 16, Minister Freeland wrote a letter saying that federal funds should not be spent on this project.

Were the two departments not consulted at that time? Did you not tell her later on that her letter was a mistake? Don't you find that a bit hypocritical or strange?