Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 7th, 2011

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Based on the work that we've done and the work that you've done and what you have seen in your many years of being involved, if you had one recommendation to us, what would it be?

[Guy Parent]

I would emphasize the tracking, because it's all about people. If you know where the people are, you can find out what's wrong with them, and you can find out how they're doing, but in many instances that's the big problem. If we have a ways and means of identifying people and where they are, then you can find out how they're doing, but if you don't have the ways and means of finding the people.... It's all about people.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Mr. McColeman, you may share your time, but you'll have five minutes. Go ahead, sir.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you for coming, sir.

I was very interested in your comments and in your examples of Veterans Affairs being “ill-prepared for crisis situations”, I think your words were, and then your relating access to OSI clinics as extremely important.

Do you have a vision or recommendation as to things this committee might consider in terms of how providing services in those emergency situations could be handled better?

[Guy Parent]

I think one of the first recommendations would be that people in Veterans Affairs need to be educated and trained in dealing with immediate needs—in other words with people in crisis, because it's not always a matter of passing the case on to a 911 number, to another agency. Sometimes there is immediate intervention that can be done.

So there's an education piece there, I think, for Veterans Affairs staff. There is also the business of advertising what OSI clinics are really about. I think there was probably a misconception that they were an emergency clinic for people suffering from OSI. Our understanding is that they're not; they are specialized clinics. There's a message there that the communications aspect needs to be done a bit better.

Having said that, if they are to be emergency clinics for OSI, then they should be equipped and staffed to be that. The problem there, I believe, has to do with security and restrictions and all these types of structural problems.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

Right.

On another line of questioning, in your experience are these occupational stress injuries—PTSD and the like—still taboo among veterans themselves? Is it still rather taboo among the population to admit to perhaps being in that situation?

[Guy Parent]

Definitely.

How long does it take to change a culture? I think it's changing, but it's going to be generations before we see something that is evident. Unfortunately, in that respect the people who have the best chance of looking after their own are the ones more entrenched in the culture of denial or of not coming forward. For instance, in the combat arm in the regiments they say “you have a family” and that sort of thing, but possibly the combat arm is where the people are most reluctant to accept the fact that people will suffer non-visible injuries as well as visible injuries. So there is still a culture problem.

And it's a matter of pride, of course, of soldiers coming back. Added to that, it has to do with things such as universality of service. If I declare that I have a problem, is it going to affect my ability to serve for the rest of my career and therefore influence the wellness of family and that sort of thing? So there's a lot more to it than simply accepting the fact that people will come back injured.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

Also, in your examples you referred in either one or both to family members reporting them to you or to your office. I know you're relatively new to the position, but is this the normal case, that it isn't the veterans themselves, who self-identify, but rather the people around them who notice symptoms of the problems, who then try to advocate for that person?

[Guy Parent]

I would think you're quite right. In many cases, whether it's contact with the peer coordinating system through OSISS, or contact with our office or Veterans Canada, it's the family member who gets concerned who makes the initial contact.

If there were any other recommendation I would make to the committee, it would be to also look at the family aspect. The families get a lot of publicity but very little action. And they are part of the military unit. A soldier has a spouse and kids, and they're part of the life and the career. They should be looked after as well.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

My last comment, if I have time, Mr. Chair, is very short.

I just want to compliment you on your presentation today. I think the “one veteran” principle is a great way to provide focus to the organization. And I was really impressed with your lead, when you told us specifically what the services are that your office was to provide. I appreciated your approaching it that way. These are the things our committee can benefit from, in terms of our focus for veterans themselves as well.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Mr. Vincent.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Your role as Veterans Ombudsman consists in representing veterans, hearing their requests and other demands and advocating for them to the government. Is that right?

[Guy Parent]

That's right. I am an advisor to the Minister, I advise him on concerns relating to programs and benefits. My mandate is that I am the representative of Canada's veterans.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

So that means that if a veteran has a problem or becomes suicidal, and you talked a little about that a moment ago, his wife can call the Ombudsman to report that there is a problem, that her husband wants to commit suicide and he has called 911. You can undertake an intervention, because you are the representative of veterans. Is that right?

[Guy Parent]

On the one hand, yes. But it is important to realize that the Office of the Veterans Ombudsman is an office of last resort. Ordinarily, we refer people to existing programs. However, we can use another approach where circumstances call for it—in English we talk about compelling circumstances. If there is an immediate danger to the family, if it is a matter of health, welfare or finances, we can become involved in the intervention without going through the existing channels.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Ultimately, it is like you being the union representative for veterans in dealing with the government, with the difference that the union president is paid by the government.

[Guy Parent]

I am also paid by the government.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Yes, that's what I meant.

What are your targets in relation to suicide in the Canadian Forces? What do you intend to do, as Ombudsman, to reduce the number of suicides in the Canadian Forces? I would like to hear you on that subject.

[Guy Parent]

First, we have talked about my mandate as Veterans Ombudsman. You will understand that my work focuses more on veterans than on serving members.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Yes, naturally, but you know that even a person who has resigned or has been dismissed from the Canadian Forces may have experienced post-traumatic stress and the symptoms may emerge later, for example suicidal thoughts. A veteran who has left the Canadian Forces might suffer from the same symptoms as a member of the Forces who is still serving.

What targets have you set for yourself for providing better follow-up for people who have suicidal tendencies?

[Guy Parent]

As I said before, we don't deal with many cases that actually involve suicidal thoughts or suicide attempts. So it is not one of our targets at present. As I was saying, we see that as a systemic subject when it comes to veterans, and not one for Ombudsman.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

We're still talking about veterans. I agree with you.

[Guy Parent]

When it comes to veterans, this is not a target at present, or in the near future.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Denis Beaudin, the founder of Veterans UN-NATO Canada, has told us there was no longer a psychologist or a psychiatrist at the Sainte-Anne hospital So what is being done to treat veterans who have suffered post-traumatic stress, if there are no appropriate resources?