Veterans Affairs Committee on March 8th, 2012

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

So 4,000 to 5,000 a year—I won't say they are rejected—are set aside for future processing.

[Keith Hillier]

No, they're not set aside. Maybe I'll just explain.

When somebody makes an application for a disability award or a disability pension, for example, those who are successful with the first application are in the 73% to 74% range.

After that, once the person is notified that they have not been successful in obtaining the benefit, or the benefit to the extent they would like, they have a right to go to the Bureau of Pensions Advocates. Or they can have someone, such as a Royal Canadian Legion services officer, work with them.

If they have information that would change the decision, rather than having them go to the Veterans Review and Appeal Board, they can ask the department for a review. We actually do several thousand of those each year. When, in fact, there is new information, it can be done in a very easy fashion.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Just on that, then, at the review and appeal board level, I think they overturn about 50% of the decisions?

[Keith Hillier]

Yes.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Then inside the department you have your own mechanisms to review these applications?

[Keith Hillier]

Yes.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Is there a way, or are you looking at a way, to try to catch some of that 50% before they have to go all the way to the review and appeal board? Is there a way that the department can help try to reduce that number? Do you have a target to do it?

It seems to me that would be a huge efficiency right there.

[Keith Hillier]

I think there are a couple of things to bear in mind. First of all, as part of our outreach, we have over 50 employees across Canada who are available to help veterans prepare their claims, and we're looking at other methods of outreach in the not-so-distant future.

The other part of that is that as the minister announced at the press conference in Winnipeg with regard to reducing red tape, and based on the recommendation of the veterans ombudsman, we have made and will continue to make more improvements in the decision letters, so that people have an understanding of exactly why the decision was made and what evidence was looked at.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I'm also going to ask Mr. Parent about that. That's good, but is there a way you can catch it before it gets to the decision letter? It seems to me that the quicker you catch it upstream—

[Keith Hillier]

I understand what you're saying, and I just want to give you a little bit of a sense of the operational dynamic. In some cases, veterans who were claiming for more than one condition might say, “Look, I have the information for two of my conditions, and I'll put it through so I can get part of my claim in pay, and then come back later.”

I just want to assure you that the main reason things are subsequently overturned isn't that the adjudicator isn't giving the benefit of the doubt, but rather that new information comes to light, particularly when somebody is working with a lawyer. I might add that Canada is probably one of the only places, the only country in the world that I know of, that provides free legal advice to veterans in order to bring their claims forward.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Okay.

Mr. Parent, I think your presentation, and certainly your predecessor, Colonel Stogran, talked about funerals and burials. What would you consider an acceptable dollar amount to set for a veteran for the year 2012? What is the number, in your opinion, the department should look at?

[Guy Parent]

That's a very good question, Mr. Chair.

The funeral and burial expenses, as you know, were the subject of the first official report of the office by my predecessor. To date, none of the recommendations have been addressed by the department. Some of the recommendations do not require any funding or anything like that.

With regard to the specific aspect of the question, on what a decent burial price or cost would be, if you wish to use those terms...again, as I said before, veterans have fought for Canada's standard of living, but they've also fought for Canada's standard of dying. The standard funeral in Canada costs between $8,000 and $10,000, and $3,500 is now provided by Veterans Affairs Canada. So I don't think I have to do the calculation. But they fought for a standard and I think we owe it to them.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I'm not—

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Sorry—just finish and we'll pass it on.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Can I just make sure I'm clear on that point? At $8,000 to $10,000, you would feel that this was fair?

[Guy Parent]

I would say that is the national standard cost as identified by the association of funeral directors of Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much.

We won't take that off your time, Mr. Strahl, so go ahead for five minutes.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Parent, I was interested in the section on the transition from military service. First of all, you mentioned that the release interview is not mandatory. Do you think it should be?

[Guy Parent]

I definitely do, and in fact at this point in time the transition interview is mandatory for people who are being released medically and who have to access services or a continuum of services from their service to Veterans Affairs Canada. It is not mandatory for reservists, and many of them just go back into full society and sometimes fall through the cracks. Again, I think if we have programs—and the majority of programs at Veterans Affairs Canada are based on needs—then the only person who can identify needs is the individual himself or his family. So this interview is important.

I would add, Mr. Chair, that the healthy veteran may also need a transition interview, because if you've been in the forces for 35 years and you've never been in civilian society, it's quite an experience. It's quite different.

We also need to look at the psychosocial aspect. People talk about reintegration. If you've never lived in the Canadian civilian context, it's not reintegration, it's integration, and there need to be programs that are actually oriented towards that aspect of it.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I don't know if this falls under your purview or if this is more DND's, but you've served in the CF and can maybe speak to it. My thinking would be that when someone is transitioning out, it's almost too late, and you should have been preparing them throughout their career.

Are there programs in the Canadian Forces that soldiers, sailors, airmen, and airwomen can avail themselves of to help them so that it's not such a shock for them, as you said, to step out into the great unknown? Are there programs throughout their careers that help them to plan financially and all the other things they may need to plan for, for their post-military life? Do those programs exist?

[Guy Parent]

I can't really speak to the programs of today. I can speak of my experience in 38 years in the forces, and then I decided not to make a career out of it. They had programs called the second career assistance network that were geared towards preparing military uniform personnel or service personnel to actually go to a civilian career. But if you have two years of service, you're 20 years old, and you're anxious about going to your next mission, what's going to happen 20 years down the road is not that important.

Again, to get a straight answer on that you'd have to ask somebody from National Defence as to what exists today. But if the question would be, are they necessary, yes, I think they definitely are.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

If I have some time, you also were critical about the access to occupational stress injury clinics in terms of a veteran having to be drug free, etc., to access that. How does that compare, perhaps, to the provincial system or private clinics of a similar nature? Is that unique to Veterans Affairs, or is that kind of the norm in terms of these sorts of clinics and what they require before someone accesses their programming?

[Guy Parent]

Mr. Chair, I believe we have an expert here on the OSI clinic. The national coordinator is here, so I'm sure he'd be able to—

[Raymond Lalonde, Director, National Centre for Operational Stress Injuries, Ste. Anne's Hospital, Department of Veterans Affairs]

We have ten clinics. Nine are outpatient clinics and one is the in-patient residential clinic. As the ombudsman was saying earlier, there is concern about the access to some of our clinics. We hear that it's mainly around the access to the in-patient clinic.

We are working at developing policy options to ensure that we can better serve those who, I would say, require crisis emergency support. The residential treatment clinic at Ste. Anne's Hospital does respond to a need, but there are needs for those who are in crisis and who require emergency support that we need to factor into our continuum of service.

So we are working on this, and there will be policy options, and service delivery will implement these options when they're established.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you.