Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 26th, 2015

[Michel D. Doiron]

Of the 200,000, it's 7,000, yes.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

You qualified your statement a couple of times by saying “case-managed clients”.

[Michel D. Doiron]

Yes, sir.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

The difficulty is, who determines who gets case-managed? The reason I say that is many times I get calls from people asking for a home visit on something. The DVA will say, “If you're not case-managed, you don't get a home visit.” My question to you is, who determines who's case-managed because that is a sticky point in terms of home visits after these closures?

Also, the training at Service Canada.... I visited several of these offices across the country where there's not an embedded person, and they told me they had four hours of online training, or something of that nature, for DVA. I can assure you it may happen in some cases, but it doesn't happen in a lot. A person will go in with a complex file and all his paperwork, and you say that a Service Canada person will actually help them look at the forms to see if they're done correctly? Sir, these forms are quite complicated, as you know. It takes a lot of training for someone like Mélanie to look at these forms and ensure that they're filled out, because 60% of the problems with the VRAB decision is the fact that a form wasn't done properly or there is a document that was missing, so the person was initially declined. I'm just wondering. If someone had four hours of online training or something at Service Canada, how do you quantify, then, that a person at Service Canada can accurately look at a complex form and see that it has been filled out properly to ensure that when that person makes a claim there will be no hiccups or problems down the road?

[Michel D. Doiron]

The training they get is to ensure that the right boxes are completed, not the information in the boxes. They don't receive eligibility training. They receive completion.... So they have the training, and they have a form that says this is what should be completed, there should be tick, tick, tick. It's the same thing they were doing for passports, the same thing they've done for other programs. So that's what they look for. Is it complete? We give them the parameters they should be looking at. That's what they look at, not if you'll get your DA/DB. Did you forget to say that you fell off the truck or something? That's not what they're looking for. It's if the boxes are well completed.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

I would make the suggestion, then, that—

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Mr. Chair, he didn't answer the first question yet. He may have overlooked it. How is it determined that somebody actually is case-managed?

[Michel D. Doiron]

I thought the honourable member was going to come back to me on that.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

No, no, go ahead.

[Michel D. Doiron]

We at Veterans Affairs determine based on risk factors. We have three tools that establish risk. If they fall between a medium and high risk, they receive a case manager.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you.

Also, when the people call the 1-866-522-2122 number, how many of those calls go to a private company?

[Michel D. Doiron]

I'm not sure which number that is. I don't know them by heart.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

That's the local DVA number you call if you have any concerns or questions about DVA. It's 1-866-522-2122. It's imprinted in my DNA.

But I do know that awhile back some of those services were privatized to a private company called Quantum, which handles the calls, and then they direct that call to wherever the person is looking. How much of that is now in private hands in terms of the initial call?

[Michel D. Doiron]

I'd have to confirm the number because I don't know them by heart. I'll take your word on that number. If it's our NCCN number, it goes to a Veterans Affairs' employee, and I apologize for not knowing the number by heart. I should, but I don't.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Perhaps you could, then, possibly advise us, because you are the ADM of service delivery, and a lot of that is the initial phone call. How many of those phone calls go to a private company? The name of the company...well, I know the name's Quantum. Where are they located and how many employees do they have? It would be interesting to call them in to see what training they've received in order to assist a veteran who's calling for the first time and trying to go through a complex situation in this particular regard.

My last question for you is on the transition.

Mélanie, you deserve the Order of Canada because I know the patience required in dealing with some of these very complex individuals, especially when someone's releasing on a 3(b) release and they don't necessarily want to leave the military. You deserve kudos for the tremendous patience that you have. I know many case managers and case workers across the country, and just their personality gives the veteran and their family a tremendous amount of comfort by listening, so well done for you on that.

When you're doing a transition, if you don't have the medical file, how difficult is it to continue on with that transition? I would assume that the first question you would ask is, “How are you doing? Do you have your medical file?” If you don't have it, then it must be challenging, then, to assist them in whatever they have down the road.

[Mélanie Witty]

Any medically released member has a CF case manager at Montfort. It's a nurse. The nurse calls me to say, “Mélanie, meet my client. This is the ABC; this is what's going on. These are the diagnoses. Can you pick it up from there?”

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

And for non-medical release?

[Mélanie Witty]

When I meet with my member, I ask them if they've gone to the archives at Montfort to ask for their medical file. It's very easy; it's one form. They can have it on a CD now instead of having the printed copy. It's very easy.

But I go with an evidence base.

In light of releasing, the member meets their doctor. We will get part (b) of the medical release that will say the release is for these conditions, and everything that has a diagnosis from high blood pressure to osteoarthritis of the lumbar spine will be on that paper, which will be shared with me. It is a “protected B“ document. I do have those documents with me.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

My last question for you especially concerns the “no” or the missing documents and such. I would assume, and I'm not sure if this is happening, that when a person's six months away from release and they're asked if they have their medical files, once they get them someone sits with them and goes through the entire file to make sure that everything is there. Then that person would have to sign a form saying they've been peer-reviewed on their medical documents, that everything is accurate and correct. They'd sign off agreeing that the medical files they have are complete, in order, and exactly what they....

If that happened, then if a person five to seven years down the road calls and says they have a medical problem and they think it's military related, at least you'd have that information and they would have agreed, prior to release, that everything was complete.

[Michel D. Doiron]

I agree with you, sir.

We do look at the files, and that's part of what we're looking at, eliminating the seam, and how much more we can do there. I would even go further than that to ask if they want to apply.... Now, they have to apply, but do they want to apply for their DA now?

Because if you do that now, with the help of either a CSA or a case manager, depending on where you are.... And it depends on your injury, if you're 3(b) or another one...that somebody looks at your file. There's no more question about that injury. You may still appeal or not be happy with the level of injury. We don't talk about that often, but people are often not happy because they think their injury is much more complex than what you're saying, and that's an opinion.

But that said—

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

That said, it's Mr. Lizon's turn.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and I would like to join my colleagues in thanking the witnesses for coming here this morning.

My first question is on SCAN. Madam Witty, you were asked whether it should be mandatory, and you did state that it would be impossible for some people to attend. Is there anything currently available for that group to deal with them on an individual basis, and if not, what would you recommend?

[Mélanie Witty]

Anyone who's severely injured, and we're talking about someone who could not sit a day in a room because it's crowded, because there are people, because it's closed—very linked to OSI—should be posted at the IPSC. At the IPSC we have all of the same partners at the SCANs. We have the Legion that comes. We have SISIP, the OSI clinic, the OSISS peer support, the MFRC.

So by being posted at the IPSC.... We have currently 220 medically releasing members. At the IPSC where I work, the partners at the SCANs are working with us, and if they're not there permanently, they come on a monthly basis. I would link my client—and I do it all the time—to the same partners they would hear about, just tailored to their needs, by coming to meet us at work.

There have been other ways that those members were able to seek the same kind of information, but at their own pace. Because, to be honest, in terms of my 45-minute presentation, when you're not well, you don't retain. I need to break it down in many meetings.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Now, would there be people who require one-on-one assistance, and if there are, is that assistance provided at the current—

[Mélanie Witty]

That would be me.