Evidence of meeting #10 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was veteran.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:35 p.m.
LGen Louis Cuppens
The timeline is a function of having the people. Generally speaking, according to the regulations at present, the case is presented by either a Legion service officer or a Bureau of Pensions Advocates lawyer.
There is a shortage of Bureau of Pensions Advocates lawyers. Demographically, they all progressed at the same age, without anybody analysing it. All of a sudden, they're all gone. That needs to be repaired, and they're working on it.
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
It seems a great deal has been downloaded to Legions. We hear all kinds of concerns about the fact that they don't have the financial resources they once did. The poppy fund is being used up in a matter of a very few weeks in terms of providing services to families that should be provided elsewhere, perhaps by VAC or by government.
My question is this. Does that mean those Legion representatives have the training and what they need to be good representatives before the VRAB?
12:35 p.m.
LGen Louis Cuppens
I could answer parts of it, but I believe you've had testimony already from the Legion. I read their testimony.
Service officers exist in various capacities at the Legion. At the Dominion Command level, they have the service bureau, which has trained service officers who have access to the client service delivery network of VAC. This is a computer-driven program in which you can look at what's wrong with a veteran, what his diagnoses were, what his disability awards have been. All that information is available to those service officers. At each provincial command, they also have a trained service officer or two.
At the branches, it's almost analogous to being in the Service Canada system. I know you have a problem and I know where to send you, but I can't do very much. I can fill out an application. The Legion does this voluntarily. Veterans Affairs Canada has a paid staff to do it, and there is a gap. I'll leave it to you to figure out how to fill it.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis
We'll have to stop there. Right now we're going to break for three minutes and then we'll come back for the second round.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis
I will call the meeting to order.
Mr. Clarke, you are up, and I'll warn everybody that we are going to hold to the time stringently.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Ms. Laverdure, if I'm not mistaken, you spoke about the fact that the Service Canada service points are not all that adequate for—
12:40 p.m.
Peer Support, Veterans UN-NATO Canada
I did not refer to Service Canada.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
I'll just ask the question generally, and one of the people here can answer.
When some of the offices were closed, there was a question about Service Canada being able to respond and provide services to the vets. My understanding is that one of the problems with this new situation was that in Service Canada offices, there were no specific agents who specialized in veterans' files.
If that was the case, since there are 600 or so Service Canada offices in Canada, if in some of them that deal with a lot of veterans there was an agent specialized in Veterans Affairs, would that be a good thing to have?
General, go ahead, please.
12:40 p.m.
LGen Louis Cuppens
It would be a good initiative. In our testimony, we explained that the numbers of programs, and the overlap, and reliance, and labyrinth of them all, is such that extensive training would be needed to fulfill that role. It would be a tremendous suggestion to have this one person in each of the Service Canada offices, but it is a huge human resource undertaking to get a person trained. They're trying to expand their programs to meet the current needs, but it's a great suggestion.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
We talk about the fact that the veterans affairs ministry should be responsible to communicate more of its programs and everything. I've been asking this question of the witnesses at each committee. In the United States, the burden of proof lies with the ministry and not the veterans. What do you people have to say about that? Should we do the same thing here, and would it probably work out a lot of the problems?
Monsieur Beaudin.
12:40 p.m.
Founder, Veterans UN-NATO Canada
I will speak to you about my personal experience.
I'll admit that I felt forced to prove my condition. I had no choice. I had to submit reports and all kinds of documents. During that time, people in such a condition are suffering and are not receiving help. But the situation has changed considerably since then.
So, if you go to a VAC centre, and you follow the right procedure and submit precise requests, the people there take responsibility for the case very quickly. It's after this first urgent intake that the situation gets complicated and things start dragging on, so much so, that the veteran can lose patience. That's often what happens, in fact. Our organization tries to offset all that.
At this stage, I now feel like I'm on an equal footing with Veterans Affairs Canada. I no longer have anything to prove to them. Many veterans are listening to me now online, so I might not win a popularity contest by saying what I'm about to say. Some people are trying to prove that they've sustained injuries, but if the evidence has some gaps in it, or some files have been lost, it's a foregone conclusion that the department will take its sweet time. This can result in the people never getting access to those services.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis
I'm sorry, Mr. Clarke, but we're going to have to end here. We've gone four minutes on that one.
Ms. Romanado.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Sherry Romanado Liberal Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC
This has been an enlightening panel today because I always scratch my head and ask myself how we can have so many organizations supporting our vets—whom I love—without it also implying that there's also a gap somewhere, that people are not getting the service they need. I started to realize—and, Mr. Black, you touched on that—that you provide a service that's not just about navigating the system and the complexity of the system, but you also a social support, which seems to go away when someone leaves the Forces because they then lose their family, as it were.
My colleague, Alupa, alluded to this, and I'm glad he did. In terms of communicating the services and programs that are available to our vets, we talked a bit about Service Canada. What are your thoughts on your federal members of Parliament, all 338 of them, being able to provide that case work—we all do case work for other kinds of files—to help veterans across Canada? That's what we're here for, to represent you and navigate the federal system to help vets. We're not experts. We don't want to take away from Veterans Affairs, but what do you think of that as a suggestion? I'm just throwing that out there.
12:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Royal Canadian Air Force Association
I would say, from meeting your colleagues over the past number of years at Air Force Day on Parliament Hill, that it's amazing to see your ethos of service to Canadians. It's really heartwarming and positive. That's the kind of thing that works, and I think that's what you're touching on. If there is an ethos of service, regardless of the requirement on the part of our parliamentarians, that means you're going to be doing what's needed. You're in a position to help connect those Canadians to the service providers or the sources that will help them. Yes, it's very important, and you do have a role in that sense.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
12:50 p.m.
LGen Louis Cuppens
Someone mentioned the difference in burden of proof.
I have dealt with the U.S. military and helped U.S. veterans access their programs. They have a different attitude toward being accountable for public monies. It's not “discretion”, but “due diligence“ is the term here. We do it meticulously. In the States, they reverse the burden of proof.
However, the one thing I remember in my service down there was that they were bemoaning the fact that in their most recent election—this goes back to the time of President Bush—only 120 of their Congress members had previous military service. I remember at that time that Canada had an election, and we had just three.
Therefore, I applaud you for taking on the role and advertising it to your colleagues, including your Senate colleagues, so that they know how to access Veterans Affairs' information and programs to help veterans who may come and look for help.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
12:50 p.m.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
I have two questions. The first is for Monsieur Beaudin.
In June 2014, this committee produced a comprehensive set of 14 recommendations. I have to say that they were quite good.
Are you familiar with this report, at all?
12:50 p.m.
Founder, Veterans UN-NATO Canada
Are we talking about the report referred to during the stakeholders' meeting? The one containing 14 recommendations?
12:50 p.m.
Founder, Veterans UN-NATO Canada
I was at that meeting, and I agreed with the recommendations. Our organization said that they were good measures. Nothing is ever 100% perfect, but we supported the measures.
12:50 p.m.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
All right. Would you suggest that this committee support all of these recommendations and that we tell this government to implement them as they are?
12:50 p.m.
Founder, Veterans UN-NATO Canada
I would need to refresh my memory of them, but I know I expressed support for them at the meeting. We supported them as an organization. We found them acceptable and considered them a step forward. Naturally, some do not share this opinion, but, in my view, and in the organization's view, the recommendations were sound.