Evidence of meeting #10 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was veteran.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
What do you suppose it is like, though, for the tasked case manager who has, we hear, a very large number of cases? There must be a kind of burnout.
12:25 p.m.
Peer Support, Veterans UN-NATO Canada
Actually, sir, yes.
Through the years we've seen case managers getting sick. They have their cases, and people would call back.... I would tell them to call their case manager, ask her to check this and that. They would get the answer that their case manager is on leave now for depression and that she'll be replaced with somebody else, but they're not getting called back.
Yes, I presume it is hard for case managers. Sometimes they hear things they're not supposed to hear, things that are not natural to hear. I'm not telling them what to do, but I would suggest that VAC train their case managers.
I think training is the key word here. For instance, some case managers have it. They know what to do. They turn around and do their job. Some of them screw up everything. I'm sorry about the word, but that's what they do.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Let me then go to the point that Mr. Cuppens made, which was on Her Majesty's government not doing business with any firm. How many ex-military people are involved in this kind of work? You made a suggestion earlier about veterans coming into the public service. What about specifically? Would a veteran be a good person in some cases to be trained to do this kind of work?
12:25 p.m.
LGen Louis Cuppens
Very much so. Your question is whether a releasing veteran would be a good case manager. You're looking at one. I've been a service officer now for 18 years. I've had all sorts of training.
Lots of veterans would volunteer to work as service officers when they take their discharge, and many do. The point in my testimony was that there are lots of medically releasing veterans who could do a second career in other departments of government, but there are obstacles in the way to seeing that.
One of the things that's really key in trying to restore a veteran is to make that veteran think that he's a responsible member of Canadian society, that he can do something. We're not in the business of treating symptoms. We're in the business of making them well, and one of the steps in making them well is to make them feel that they can do something in society.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
In earlier testimony I asked about whether during the period of service there needs to be a better relationship between the active servicemen and the Department of National Defence to assist in the transition, with consultation and so on.
12:25 p.m.
LGen Louis Cuppens
It's the same comment I've made several times. This concept is being pursued jointly by Veterans Affairs Canada and the Defence Department with the establishment of joint support personnel units right across every military base, jointly staffed by Veterans Affairs case managers and Defence Department officials, usually at the medical centre of each base. It's a wonderful concept. It wasn't in being four years ago, so you're hearing anecdotal evidence of failures, poor outcomes. But when you talk to the more recent examples, there are really good outcomes.
You'd do well to get the people who founded this and are responsible for it to come and talk to you.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis
Mr. Kitchen, you have five minutes. Then we'll end with Ms. Mathyssen for three minutes. We'll probably have time for a second round of about three minutes each, and we'll get Mr. Black involved in that, hopefully.
Mr. Kitchen.
May 5th, 2016 / 12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
I'd like to thank all the witnesses for their presentations.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
Better integration of the programs and services by DND and VAC is what I'm hearing we need, both today and over the last little while as well.
Ms. Fimrite, in your presentation you suggested six months to start that process. Earlier this week we heard from Mr. Westholm, who recommended that the integration should start from day one of basic training, and be programmed from day one as we step forward; and that each time as the soldiers progress, as they hit certain ranks, their modules should increase and increase.
Could you comment on that thought process, whether you think that's right or wrong?
12:30 p.m.
Dominion Secretary-Treasurer, Dominion Command, The Army, Navy and Air Force Veterans in Canada
Yes. Certainly. In my article I'm saying there's a minimum of six months from the time a release is decided to when that release occurs. Sometimes it's a year, sometimes it's two years, but Veterans Affairs should be involved right away with that particular veteran and their family as soon as the decision is made that they will be released.
I certainly agree with previous testimony that the knowledge of Veterans Affairs and the benefits and services they will eventually provide the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces should be taught to them as soon as they choose to join. It's a natural progression of their career. As well, veterans benefits and services are always being adjusted, so as those changes are made, there needs to be the appropriate knowledge transfer to those who are in the Forces about what they can expect when they decide or are forced to leave.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
General Cuppens, would you have any comments?
12:30 p.m.
LGen Louis Cuppens
You get a pamphlet. I could have brought it with me. It describes a whole bunch of things, including the various benefits that were available to a veteran at the time the book was published. This is changing as we speak.
I agree that education should continue throughout the serviceman's and servicewoman's life, but more intense briefings and explanations should occur when the person is deciding to take a normal discharge, or when he is warned that he may be medically discharged. The information is evolving so rapidly that you can't give the fellow a little bible to take home with him. I still have mine from my original sign-up. It was quite thin. The one they were using at the time of my release is about that thick. I suspect it's even thicker now.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
Monsieur Beaudin, I'm going to get you to answer in a second, but I'm first going to ask Mr. Black if he has any comments or not.
12:30 p.m.
Executive Director, Royal Canadian Air Force Association
I'm just reflecting on a theme that has come out from all around the table, which reminds me of the principle of homophily, for what that is worth. General Cuppens just spoke about making vets feel confident in their responsibility as a contributing member of society. Ms. Mathyssen and colleagues have touched on the subject of the role of the family. The same or similar references have been made by others.
We all get it, and this is what we get: we derive identity from our social connections—friends, family, fellow soldiers, sailors, aviators. The fraternal aspects are key. Remove the veteran from these connections and you contribute to their demise. Strengthen them, support those connections, and you actually save lives.
Associations are made up of these connections, these friends, these families, these fellow soldiers. Why? Because of the principle of homophily. We love connecting and bonding with similar-minded people. That's where our identities come from. The associations here at the table and others you've spoken to, that's where they work. They thrive in those spheres. They have a tremendous amount of stuff to offer, but they have no resources, or the resources are significantly limited.
A lot of us get involved in other projects, such as Soldier On. If you participate in a Soldier On event, you can't help but be broken down by what you see happening. Those events actually save lives. Why? Because they grab those disenfranchised members who have lost their identity and they bring them back into that sphere. They remind them, through the connections in the communities that are supporting them, that they do still have something to offer, that they are important, and that there are folks who still respect and need them.
That's what it's all about.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis
No, sorry. You'll have to ask during the second round.
Ms. Mathyssen, you have three minutes.
12:35 p.m.
Founder, Veterans UN-NATO Canada
I was prepared to take the floor, but will do so later.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis
Next round.
It's Ms. Mathyssen, then we're on a break for about two minutes, and then we're coming back with three minutes each. We'll have enough time for a second round.
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
I have a couple of questions.
First of all, we've heard testimony and concerns around the Veterans Review and Appeal Board. Certainly that's been out there for a very long time. There's the fact that the appointees are appointees instead of being medically trained people who understand what they're seeing, or ex-military members who likewise understand what the veteran is talking about when they come to the appeals. There have been suggestions about changes to the board, but in addition to that there's a lot of criticism about providing clear and reasoned decisions and in a timely way.
I'm wondering, with all of this criticism, are you seeing any improvements in the way the VRAB communicates the reasons for the decisions it makes? That's for whoever would like to answer.
12:35 p.m.
President, Canadian Peacekeeping Veterans Association
I think there's been a distinct improvement in VRAB. A lot of the feedback we're getting is old. When you look at the new structure of the board, everybody is represented, particularly veterans. The police are represented, legal is represented, and medical is represented. It's a good construct now, as far as I'm concerned.
It needs improvement, but they are actively working on improving, not just being there.
