Veterans Affairs Committee on May 10th, 2016

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Thank you for that.

Building on that, you mentioned that maybe one of the ways you can have an independent voice is through recognizing that having education for the spouse would be an important way to allow you to reach your potential and also contribute to assisting your spouse. You mentioned therapeutic—that you could have done massages for your husband—or other means of education. I am wondering if you think that education should be left wide open. Should it be described in such a way that it actually physically assists the veteran, or should it be wide open?

[Jenny Migneault]

If you help me, you help my husband, and if you help my husband, you help me. Again, I cannot speak on behalf of everybody, but I believe people should have a choice. Yes, education could be oriented in a therapeutic way for my husband, but it could also be for me—whatever suits me that will allow me to survive and maintain a quality of life.

I don't know if everybody would agree, but if, for instance, I want to learn genealogy, because for me it is important—it makes me feel happy and allows me to stay at home—maybe this could be considered. The more I'm happy, the more he's happy. And the more I'm happy, the more I contribute to my society and the less I am a burden to you all, financially and psychologically.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Just to be clear, is there anything you are aware of right now that would allow a spouse to access any educational services, or is it just for the veteran?

[Jenny Migneault]

It's for the veteran. Everything is through the veteran, and if he doesn't have that....

With education, we're talking about going back to school?

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Yes.

[Jenny Migneault]

This is not what I'm talking about. I don't want to go back to school three years in a row.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Okay. Thank you very much.

Carla, I would like to turn to you for a moment. I really appreciate the evidence you gave. You mentioned something that's of interest to me in particular, because I come from a rural area in Nova Scotia. You talked about not having access to the website or My VAC. I take from that you mean the access to broadband services or high-speed Internet in order to access those. Is that the barrier?

[Carla Murray]

They call this high-speed, but it's basic high-speed. It's 1.4 on a really good day, and I mean a really good day, or maybe at 3 o'clock in the morning.

I find that both Blue Cross and My VAC websites just don't work. They don't open, they don't process, and they time out. Even ParlVU, I managed to get it working the past few days, but it's a real struggle. You guys are basing so many of your programs on this Internet stuff. It's really impacting us hard. We don't have any services as it is, so we really could use the help. Stop relying so much on that, that and the Legion. You are just leaving us totally out here in the west, because neither one is any good to us out here.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

In terms of a veteran's loss of benefits, and you mentioned the ELB in particular, it seemed to me you were describing that there was not an adequate rationale given.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Fraser, we're down to 20 seconds.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Okay.

Do you see a change in how many case managers there are? Would that help in order to actually have them coming and meeting you face to face?

[Carla Murray]

You absolutely have to have the face-to-face. Veterans are not going to like it, and I know they're not, but I've been doing this for 13 years. I was the one who was doing it and taking care of my husband before anything was offered. I call it the dark days. I learned everything by myself. But yes—

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

I apologize. We have run out of time, so we'll have to come back in the second round.

Ms. Mathyssen.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to Carla and Jenny. You have given us a number of important insights, and I thank you for your courage in coming forward.

One of the things that has come through for me is the sense that caregivers are regarded as the package that comes along with the veteran—that you are for free—and there's a sense of downloading the responsibilities of Veterans Affairs onto you. It would seem that you have paid a terrible price for that in terms of your own health and what you are compelled to manage.

The new government has made a great big noise about increasing the number of case workers at VAC. Is that enough? Is that going to be the magic bullet that they seem to think it is?

[Jenny Migneault]

I think there is no overall solution that can address all of that. That said, I believe efforts are being made. Can the result be felt completely, from one end of the country to the other? I doubt it. It may still be too soon to say, but one thing is for sure: adding more case managers, by itself, is not going to change the situation. There is still an entire system that makes no sense.

VRAB is a great example of the nonsense.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay.

On respite care, I wonder, Carla, if you could speak to this, as well as Jenny—

[Carla Murray]

I'm sorry, I just want to point out that Jenny and I are both saying that VAC is structurally broken. You don't understand how far that breakage has gone. They're getting worse now because they're doing a disconnect, so they are not connecting with veterans directly.

Yes, the case managers, if they actually do the face-to-face with veterans...and please, dear God, research that—taking away benefits and not seeing the veteran face to face when they lose that benefit—because every single one who has talked to me about losing benefits still does not understand.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I want to come back to respite care. It seems to me that is very important to a family living with stress, caring for someone with incredible needs. What kind of access do you have to respite care, and if you have access, is it enough? Does it work? What needs to happen there?

[Jenny Migneault]

I'm going to talk to you from my perspective of being homeless. When I left, I was told that I could call the Legion, for instance.

Can I take 20 seconds of your time to please acknowledge the fact there is a profound disconnect between what you hear from the executive committee and what's happening on the ground?

Thank you, Carla; you do agree with me.

Let me tell you something. I cannot wait for this country to have those people who still are refusing to tell you how much they earn a year. I can't wait for you to have them right in front of you and to ask the real questions, to stop the circus.

They are telling me that I'm supposed to get help from the poppy fund.

It's an open secret.

it's not true that it's going that much to the families. Some Legions are doing great. Some people are truly devoted to helping us. But what they are telling you from the executive committee is a big zero. Please stop giving them a voice when it comes to families, because they don't know what they are talking about. That's how serious this is.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

I have one last question. Very clearly, you've been long-term caregivers of a veteran's family. We're coming up with recommendations that we want this government to follow through on.

What would be your most important recommendation for this committee, for the minister, and for the government? What's number one?

[Carla Murray]

That you have no credibility. Start from scratch. Blow it up. Change the name. Change everything. You're asking employees who have been doing the same delay-and-deny culture for 10 years. You can't expect them to change. They're not going to change.

Our veterans are suffering. Make it veteran-centric, where VAC has to prove those injuries aren't service-related. VAC needs to do the paperwork, and then the paperwork would get suddenly simpler. You need to create a system where if somebody needs a wheelchair, all of a sudden there is this pop-up box that says, “Okay, you need a wheelchair. Do you need winter tires? Do you have any accessibility? What do you need?” Automatically it would come up. Everything would be on a system, so that if anything consequential comes up, it wouldn't be as much of a fight.

Let's get VAC back to doing their own paperwork. That by far will make everything simpler and take a lot of stress off of veterans.

Blow it up from the base. That's my vote.

[Jenny Migneault]

I totally respect what Carla says.

For my part, I would like to say that, as a member of the family advisory committee, one of my top priorities would be to give the family a voice. First of all, please, no more caregiver relief benefit...which was developed as a political reaction to save the image. Now please make it work. I still believe that the $2.5 million is okay for that measure, but I'd like to remind you, just quickly, that the caregiver relief benefit was meant for my husband, not for me. It was meant for him, to have the services that I provide to him, when I'm gone to have a rest. It does not make sense with PTSD. It's only a beautiful little plaster. It's not for me. It's not compensation. It's for him, to help.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Ms. Lockhart.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

I would like to thank both of you ladies for being here today. Your testimony is very powerful for us.

As we set out as a committee, we had decided we wanted to do this service delivery study, because we wanted to talk to you about what your experiences have been, rather than talking at higher levels about what it was intended to do.

Having said that, I'd like to drill down a bit. One of the things we're hearing about is the transition period. I'd like to hear from both of you as to what your experiences were. Explain to us when this went off the rails. We're prepared to hear what you have to say. We certainly understand, but let's back it up to the beginning, wherever one of you like to start.

[Carla Murray]

Go ahead, Jenny.