Veterans Affairs Committee on Sept. 22nd, 2016

[Debbie Lowther]

We've had situations in which a Veterans Affairs case manager will contact us and refer her veteran to us for peer support. The case managers, I think, also utilize OSISS a lot for some peer support. I think that goes a long way and it ties back into what we were talking about earlier, using the resources that are already there, using the community resources. There are people who don't want their families involved because that's where their head is at the time, but they would like to have a peer involved.

[Nora Spinks]

I think the challenge here is to try to balance between the “high touch” and the high tech. We have lots of high-tech solutions and strategies and information resources and forms online and those kinds of things. High touch is about the trust, the personal, and the respectful relationships. If we marry those two, then we will be much further ahead and we will be able to realize greater efficiencies than if we just rely on one or the other.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

Madame Lowther, you talked about boots on the ground and how you find veterans who are living on the street. Could you walk us through the process? You find the veterans and then you put them in touch with Veterans Affairs. What happens then? What does VAC do?

[Debbie Lowther]

I have to say that with a majority of the veterans we have taken to VAC, the ones who are in that state of crisis and are actually homeless, the case managers have been really good in trying to expedite their applications for benefits. We've seen some of our veterans have a turnaround time of two weeks for ELB, which is practically unheard of. Veterans Affairs does present the benefits that might be available to that veteran.

We also work with other organizations, because sometimes the veteran isn't entitled to anything from Veterans Affairs. They don't have a service-related injury, or they may have served only a short period of time. Then we rely on other provincial social support systems. For the most part, however, Veterans Affairs tends to provide for the needs they have.

[Nora Spinks]

If you're interested in seeing boots on the ground, the program 16X9 did a wonderful documentary. They followed Debbie and her volunteers on the streets in Edmonton. It's a wonderful documentary. If you want to just get a sense of the power of the program, it's really a must-see.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay.

One of the things said in regard to this homeless vet who's on the street and in a rather desperate situation is that it's hard to understand how looking at what's happened to this individual could not be regarded as a service-related injury. I'm having difficulty understanding that. I also wondered about the issue in regard to the military doctor examining the individual and saying, yes, they have a service-related injury, but then once that individual is released, and they're reassessed by a VAC doctor, they're not seen as having a service-related injury.

There has been evidence at the committee that VAC and DND are working on that, but the very fact that you raised it makes me very concerned that it's still there. How does that happen? How do we change that reality?

[Debbie Lowther]

It would probably require policy changes. That is, I would say, above my pay grade.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Nora Spinks]

I think it comes back to this whole concept of collaboration. We have to get rid of the silos in order to get efficient allocation of financial resources but also human resources in order to get the results we're all aiming for, where it's no longer, “This is mine, and this is my case.” That would be a more systemic focus, a focus on the system, as opposed to....

Let's flip that and focus it on the individual who's needing to access services, and have the services adapt. As opposed to having the individual try to squeeze into one of the few peg holes available, let's have the peg holes adjust to the people who are trying to access services.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you. I think that's an important recommendation, and it leads me to ask what other recommendations you would make. We're writing a report. What would be your top recommendation?

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

I'll have to give you just 20 seconds on that. We're running out of time. Sorry.

[Nora Spinks]

I would say family-centred, individual-focused, and a blend of high touch and high tech.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you for that.

Mr. Bratina.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Lowther, I'm sorry, I haven't seen the video presentation yet. Could you tell me where the encounters take place with homeless veterans? Is it on the street, in shelters, or is it the whole range?

[Debbie Lowther]

It's on the street and in shelters. Often, if another person refers that veteran to us, we'll meet with them at a Tim Hortons or wherever the veteran is comfortable meeting.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

How often is there an identifiable mental issue with people in that circumstance?

[Debbie Lowther]

I don't have statistics in front of me, but I'm comfortable in saying that about 90% of the veterans we've served have a mental health issue.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

What assistance is given at that point, when you've seen that someone is in mental distress? You're talking about someone who can't manage their finances, who doesn't want to open an envelope, or whatever. I can see someone being perturbed like that, but once you get into real mental issues, how does that work? What happens in dealing with a veteran in that situation?

[Debbie Lowther]

When we encounter a veteran who has very serious mental illness, we consult with Veterans Affairs and try to bring in mental health care providers. Again, that goes way beyond what we have the capability to do. We aren't medical professionals. We aren't health care providers, so we cannot diagnose that person, but we will try to bring in the resources and the people who can help that person. Not that long ago, one of our volunteers sat with a veteran in the ER for 36 hours to make sure he received mental health care.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Are there hotline types of resources that are available to you for those people? A homeless individual who is resourceful can kind of get by, but these people must be hanging by a thread.

[Debbie Lowther]

Yes, they are, but you have to consider that that's their normal. They've adapted to living that way. We might think it's unusual behaviour, but to them, that's their normal. Even though someone has mental illness, they still have the right to decide for themselves whether or not they want the care. We can only point them in the direction and make recommendations.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

In your experience in working face to face, do you almost have a preordained kind of script in mind as to how the conversation will go, or is it different for every individual?

[Debbie Lowther]

It's different for every person. I don't think we've ever encountered any two cases that have been the same. Everyone is different. Everybody's situation is different.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

That makes it difficult to bring new volunteers into the fray, since they have not had the experience that you and some of your colleagues would have had.

[Debbie Lowther]

Yes. I'll go back to what I said earlier, that most of our volunteers are former military or still-serving military, so a lot of them have some key training already, like suicide intervention training, non-violent crisis intervention, and those kinds of things, as well as the peer support aspect of things, which can solve a whole lot of other problems. When we bring a new volunteer on board, they're always teamed up with a more experienced volunteer.