Evidence of meeting #40 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was training.
A recording is available from Parliament.
As an Individual
I cannot speak in a comparative way. I can't say a soldier in every case will be better than a VAC employee.
As an Individual
I do know that proactive outreach from soldiers on an ongoing basis saves lives.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
Okay.
For veteran-specific treatment, which you talked about, we have OSI clinics and other things that are available. Can you make some recommendations or give me some idea of what you mean by veteran-specific treatments that VAC could perhaps do a better job of, to ensure that veterans are getting the help they need?
As an Individual
I sure can. I'm speaking specifically to residential or in-patient treatments. Those two are not necessarily the same thing.
There are many facilities—places like Bellwood, Homewood, Sunshine Coast Health Centre—that provide longer-term in-patient treatments, but as I said, there are mixed populations in a lot of cases in these facilities. The researchers likely have a fair bit of familiarity with vets, but their work is not necessarily tailored to them, nor is the program delivery.
The Minister of Veterans Affairs' mandate letter actually pledges a “centre of excellence” for mental health—
As an Individual
That, in my opinion, is a weasel word. What was actually demanded by veterans' advocates was specifically a treatment facility, yet that's what it turned into in the mandate.
On the mental health advisory group that I'm a part of within VAC, we are pushing very hard for that to be a brick-and-mortar facility. We need something in a therapeutic environment filled with safe people who veterans can open up to. I'm not denigrating other people who have suffered from mental health disorders or trauma, but certain people are not compatible with each other. Vets also include former RCMP members. We need brick-and-mortar facilities that are unique to the VAC client population and have a constant ability, on a demand-driven basis, to get vets into full-time treatment.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
It could be a walk-in clinic, or it could be by appointment, servicing all these different needs. Is that how you would see it?
As an Individual
That could be, but the main effort has to be something for treatments of 30 days or more.
Liberal
Liberal
Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Thank you very much.
Ms. Gagnon, I think all of us are concerned every time you look at your phone. I certainly hope no one has....
It's good of you to share that with us. Is that something that occurs on a weekly or a monthly basis?
Liberal
Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Can you tell me how you felt when you graduated into the services? Was there a golden era of becoming the sailor that you wanted to be?
Founder, It's Just 700
I actually wanted to be in the artillery initially, but at recruitment they laughed at me and said, “How about the navy?” I enjoyed the navy, but I just honestly wanted to do boot camp to see if I could make it at that point.
I ended up liking the sea. Then I went back to school and transferred to intelligence officer. I wanted to be a public affairs officer, but that got cut short, so I had to rethink my whole career. My husband is in the military, so we were following each other.
There was a plan, and now that plan has changed as well. You lose your pension and you lose the prospect of having all these things, so it's kind of a do-over. It changes a lot.
Liberal
Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
What do you think you would say to a group of young recruits, the people that you were, as they're entering into service? Would you have a message for them with regard to the issues that we're talking about today? Is it something you could talk to young recruits about?
Founder, It's Just 700
I wish I could say, “If something happens, talk”, but I can see what happens when people do and I don't know if it's a good time yet. I don't think we're there yet. There are still a lot of medical releases. There are still a lot of repercussions. There are still a lot of people being penalized for talking, and the retaliation part has not been set yet. We've pushed people to report, but we haven't actually provided support when they do, so until that is installed....
Of course, I am never going to stop somebody from reporting—I think for some people it's closure—but I'm not going to push somebody to report, either. I think everybody has to go at their own pace.
Liberal
As an Individual
Yes, I'll put on my still-serving sergeant's hat for a second. It'll be a cold day in hell before somebody does something like this to one of my troops and I don't go to bat for them, but that's me. There are many who come from a different mindset—an obsolete, destructive mindset—who would perhaps be more tempted to shove these things under the rug.
Unfortunately, as Marie-Claude has alluded to, the process can be terrible for people who do come forward. I have seen people disclose these sorts of assaults in what they thought was a safe place to do so, and had the chain of command get wind of it, and three years later they're still dealing with the ramifications of a subsequent investigation that they maybe never even wanted, because they just wanted to try to move past it.
On the one hand, the military is absolutely tied by an obligation to act to the fullest extent of the law when these things do come forward, and perhaps the victims are getting lost in that, but change is not going to come from the 17-year-olds or 19-year-olds who are going through basic training. It's going to come from the more experienced senior leadership, who need to grow up, take the reins, and fix this from within.
Liberal
Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Ms. Gagnon, is the exposure of married females any different from that of single women in terms of MST in the service?
Founder, It's Just 700
We also have to consider that our spouses usually face retaliation as well. Even if we're out and we do speak, there is a chance that they get retaliated against. I have five people in my group, and I know that this is what's going on. Their spouses are facing retaliation for it, and they feel bad.
It's something we have to consider when we talk. Obviously, relocating all the time, now that we're civilians we need to find new health care everywhere, new therapists and new psychiatrists, and this is not easy to find. If career transition is hard when you leave, and you get to pick where you live, imagine if you move to Gagetown. You have no purpose anymore, and a lot of times you get pushed to stay at home and take care of your kids. If you've been in the military all these years and you had a different path in life, this is not what you expected. There is nothing wrong with that, but it's just maybe not what was in your blood initially. To report is really a career killer.
Can I just say one thing about what you asked initially?
Founder, It's Just 700
I have one message. A lot of people see things going on and say nothing. The best way to stop assaults and things like that from happening is that when you're a witness and you see something going on, you say, “You know what? I see this, and it looks pretty bad. Why don't I go with you and report this?” That provides a statement. It provides a witness and makes the person much more confident to report, and the investigation would proceed, but a lot of people choose to say nothing because they themselves are afraid for their own career.
Liberal
Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
We're listening intently. I wonder if, in other conversations, people sometimes think you're exaggerating and things can't be that bad. Mr. Harding or Ms. Gagnon, do you think that the general public accepts what we're hearing today or not?
As an Individual
I'm not throwing out statistics. Some will; some won't. Those who don't can speak to me about it, and I will tell them what I have observed. Most people are okay in most circumstances, but there is still far too much going on.
