Veterans Affairs Committee on April 12th, 2016

[Gen Walter Natynczyk]

I want to clear up a misconception. The real purpose of reconnecting with veterans on a regular basis is to see what kind of conditions they are facing, because a lot of the serious injuries don't get better, and in many cases they get worse. The purpose of the follow-up questions—and we try to be as unintrusive as possible—is to see what their real conditions are like and whether they require additional assistance.

It's interesting. Since this issue arose a while ago, in looking at it, on 24% of the occasions where we had feedback, Veterans Affairs provided additional supports to those veterans.

It really is a question of the circumstances under which the veteran is living. Do they need additional support? Are they able to cope? Have they changed their address? Have they moved to a different venue where they might need additional support?

I want to clear up that misconception. The purpose of that questionnaire is to follow up in an unintrusive way, and in a caring way, to ensure that Veterans Affairs is fulfilling its responsibility for caring for that veteran.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Minister, the mandate letter indicated a plan, and you referred to it here, to reopen the closed Veterans Affairs offices.

What is your timeline? It has been six months. Offices like the one in Windsor have been closed for a long time, and veterans truly need those services, so we need a timeline in terms of reopening. Also I understand you are going to staff those offices, but I have heard some concerns about the training of those new case workers and about making sure they have all the skills they need to do the job.

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

We are going to open the nine offices that were closed under the previous administration. We're also going to open up a Surrey location, where we're finding a cohort of veterans who are finding their way to that region. We identified that as an area of support. Also, we had no ability to service the north, which we are going to be doing. I can tell you that I'm working very closely with Minister Foote on this to engage her early on in getting our offices open. Obviously this will take some time, but I can tell you that we're actively engaged on this and we're looking at plans to reopen them as soon as possible.

On the hiring of front-line staff, we know that we have to ensure they have the ability to interact with veterans and to connect them to the services they need. Going back, we have some expertise in this. We have offices in other areas and we're looking at what they're doing as a best practice model. That will continue in my work with Minister Sajjan.

The hiring of the service delivery staff has already begun. We're gone a great way down that path. We've hired 183 people to date, 72 of whom are case managers, and we're continuing to go through that hiring process to ensure our veterans get the care, the help, and the support they need, when and where they need it.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

In the Netherlands, a member of the armed forces is not released from the military until they have both employment and a benefits package in place. Have you heard of this? What do you think about it? Is this something that we might apply here to our Canadian Forces and veterans? Is it a model that you might be prepared to pursue?

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Minister, we have about 30 seconds left.

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

In my meetings with our operational stress injury clinics and those who are currently on the transition teams, from the Department of National Defence to Veterans Affairs, they've identified those gaps. We're going to be working with Minister Sajjan to look at these models, to ensure that when they're released from the military they have the financial benefits they need to build their lives, as well as options on education, employment, and the like.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Next is Ms. Romanado.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

I'd like to thank you, Minister, for being here today. Please accept my apologies for literally running in the door. I am the only member of Parliament who sits on both the national defence committee and the veterans affairs committee, so I too wear the same hats that you do, and I was literally running from one meeting to another.

I want to commend you, because my decision to run for Parliament was based on the care that our Canadian Armed Forces and our veterans were experiencing. After rereading articles from February 2014, where it was mentioned that the goal was one case manager for every 40 case-managed veterans, to hear your goal of 25:1 is inspiring. I'm looking forward to working with you in that regard.

Given Mrs. Mathyssen's comments regarding recruitment of case managers, I'd like to know if you could elaborate a bit in terms of the job description and the profile you're looking for in terms of these case managers. I know that we've hired 72. I want to get a sense of what it is that you're looking for. What kind of skill set are you looking to bring in?

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

Again, the 25:1 number was not pulled out of thin air. We researched. We looked at best practices, both in social work and in other military operations around the globe, and we said that this was where we're aspiring to be, an average of no more than 25:1. Currently we have case managers who are well beyond that, and our veterans are not receiving the information and the services they need. This has been referenced in ombudsman's reports and in reports of auditors general going back some time. We're making meaningful steps to do that.

In terms of employment and who we're hiring, I think General Natynczyk would be best to give you a scope of what we're looking for. Obviously, it's the best and the brightest: we want them in Veterans Affairs.

[Gen Walter Natynczyk]

I would say that the common denominator for all the folks we want to hire is empathy—folks who have real people skills. As the minister indicated, their whole job is about the care of our veterans, compassion, and respect.

With regard to case managers, we're looking for social workers, nurses, and psychologists who have some experience with case management. I am thrilled to see that folks are coming from across the country. Indeed, many who are contemplating retirement from the Canadian Armed Forces are applying. We're working through the public service rules, which can be somewhat challenging, but to get people in the door, as the minister indicated, we have hired in excess of 183 people thus far.

We put them through a very formal training program, which has been great. We have reinstituted a formal training program, bringing people centrally, putting them through a bit of a schoolhouse, and making sure they understand the various regulations. I was just in Quebec City recently, and I saw the great people who have come in, gone through the schoolhouse, and are getting their first few case files of veterans. As they get more and more confidence, more will come to them from other case managers who have carried quite a heavy burden.

I would also like to emphasize that it's not only case managers who are key here. It's also the veterans service agents. The veterans service agents are those individuals who care for a larger number of veterans, who have very simple, straightforward issues and requirements and illnesses and that kind of thing. The case managers manage about 9,400 cases in total. The vast majority of the others are managed by the veterans service agents. We're hiring both, and putting them both through a training program.

I would just conclude by saying that the key for all of them is a sense of empathy, of ensuring that the veterans and their families have the support they require.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

In terms of wait times, how do you determine an ideal wait time in terms of service delivery, and what tools are being used to evaluate current wait times and benchmarking for improvements?

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

We're endeavouring to go on a service delivery review. We are looking at what we're doing in Veterans Affairs in all facets, whether that be through retraining, employment, or education, as well as the number of front-line staff and the needs that are out there.

The complex needs of those who are returning from the Afghan theatre and others in our department are pressuring us to do a better job on service delivery. That's a good thing. I'll reiterate that this has been identified in ombudsman reports and Auditor General reports. Going about that review and coming up with ways to track the help that veterans are getting on a timely basis—that's the work we will be doing in our department.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Fraser.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Thank you very much, Minister, for being here today. It's really a pleasure to have you with us. I appreciate very much the work you've done so far in your role. Congratulations on being the Minister of Veterans Affairs. I look forward to working with you to ensure that the service being provided to veterans in Canada is the best in the world.

You mentioned budget 2016 in your opening comments. In reviewing it, I think it will make a difference for veterans. I appreciate your comments on budget 2016.

I'm wondering, with regard to service delivery, about the nine offices that will be reopened and the new one in Surrey. I come from Nova Scotia, from West Nova, and no service delivery office will be reopened there. Could you tell me how the service delivery will be improved for rural areas, for veterans who maybe have difficulty accessing larger centres, and how the department can work with those veterans to ensure that they're able to receive services like those in bigger places?

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

There is no doubt that the reopening of the nine offices, and Surrey, and the expansion in the north will allow many people to have more access points, as will the hiring of more service delivery staff. I look at this like some of the other things we're doing in our department, making sure that we have the people available to deal with cases in a timely manner.

On the expansion of our role in rural Canada, there is no doubt that we have many veterans who choose to live all across this great nation and they need our care, compassion, and respect. We need to work with them on rebuilding their lives. How to build that holistic, integrated support, while recognizing the large nation we live is in, is a challenge, but it's a challenge for all departments. It really, really is. We'll continue to monitor that and continue to build on that, and we'll look at other ways to support our rural communities.

Walt, do you have anything to add on that?

[Gen Walter Natynczyk]

If I could just add that, again, the front-line offices, augmented by the 10 additional offices, will be key and I'll call it the mobile office, a virtual office, in the north. It's interesting, one of our key staff was just up in the north in a small community of just a couple of hundred folks and there were two veterans of Bosnia and Afghanistan. It's providing that front-line staff.

As well, as the minister indicated in his opening remarks, the online service My VAC has now doubled and tripled to 32,000 veterans using that support, which is absolutely terrific. It's interesting because we stereotype who My VAC is set up for. You see a 95-year-old veteran with an iPad on his or her lap, able to do that; some folks of World War II or Korean War vintage are pretty savvy with this. At the same time, others need a personal touch and personal visit. That's why we're reducing our paperwork load so our case managers and our veterans service agents can get out more and maintain that personal touch with our veterans.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Thank you very much. I know My VAC is going to be an important piece in reaching out across the country. It's also important to keep in mind that some areas in rural Canada don't have high-speed Internet access so it'll be important to work with cross-government departments to ensure this is looked at.

With regard to the caseworkers, and reducing the ratio to 25:1, I commend you, Minister, and also the department, for taking that on and ensuring the resources are there to do that. I'm wondering if you can explain what that will mean for the ability of an individual who has been in the system and been waiting and the delays that can be resolved by reducing the ratio to 25:1.

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

In my view, this is a very good step in ensuring our veterans get the care, compassion, and respect they deserve, as well as the services they need. When a veteran has a person to pick up the phone in a timely manner and then to follow up with their needs on an individual basis, it's highly important to ensure we understand the challenges they're going through, understand the programs that are available, and we're trying to incorporate the family. We have to understand that when a man or a woman signs up for military service, the entire family goes along. We're looking at building that perspective not only through the case managers, but throughout the whole department, having a family-centric approach to how we get services out there better.

The 25:1 number was researched and was looked at as a best practice in social work as well as other military organizations that are providing that service, and we think it's necessary. Let's also remember we're attempting to move into assisting those men and women who find themselves homeless, who have been veterans. Let's be clear, when we're dealing with homelessness, there's a complex array of issues that a member has gone through. That often takes up an additional amount of a caseworker's time, and that's a good thing. We don't look at this as a negative, trying to assist someone to build the capacity to get into affordable, accessible housing, to rebuild what has become a difficult situation. We sense by these additional supports we're allowing for the time to work through whatever the veteran's issue is, whether it's a physical or emotional disability.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Clarke.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, minister. It's an honour to have you with us, and I would like to thank you for joining us.

As I am the official opposition critic for veterans affairs, I have done my homework and contacted a number of veterans groups. I also had breakfast with some 100 veterans in Quebec City, last week. I want to start by saying that, like those veterans, I recognize your contribution and congratulate you on the efforts you and your government have made to make things better for veterans. I also want to congratulate you on continuing on the path of the previous government, which adopted an approach of constantly improving the situation under the new Veterans Charter, which was created in 2005.

However, minister, I would like to ask you some questions about two key points. I am talking about two concerns and disappointments I heard about from the veterans I have met and talked to on the phone over the past two weeks. I am referring to the financial benefits covering three specific increases.

The veterans have told me that they were pretty disappointed to see what has come of their recommendations on the earnings loss benefits. Those recommendations, which were supported by the Veterans Ombudsman, were to increase the benefits from 75% to 90%.

Veterans feel a bit cheated. In fact, although this is an increase, the 90% is based on a lower salary base than the 75%. When we do the math—which I did in my office—we see that the increase is actually 3.7% and not 15%, since the salary range is lower. We are rather talking about an increase from 75% to 78.7%. Instead of having $8,600 more per year, a veteran who is entitled to earnings loss benefits receives $2,000 more per year.

Minister, as you know, the veterans' request for a 15% increase implied that the base salary range would not be reduced.

Could you briefly explain the department's actions?

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

In budget 2016, we delivered substantially for veterans who have been long awaiting changes and recognition that their services were respected. We moved on the earnings loss benefit in an aggressive fashion, I believe, that allows for people to move from 75% of their release salary to 90%.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

With all due respect, we can see together, when we do the math, that the increase is 3.7% and not 15%. Your mandate letter said that you accepted the ombudsman's recommendations to increase the rate from 75% to 90%. However, that is not explicitly stated in your budget. It's mentioned very briefly. If we do the math, we see that it's not a real increase.

I can tell you that most of the veterans groups said that they were more or less satisfied with the budget. However, when it comes to this specific benefit, they are very disappointed to see that it is somewhat deceitful. If that is too strong of a term, I apologize.

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

The member brings up the ombudsman. I will refer you to the comments he made after we delivered budget 2016. He was highly impressed with the direction of this government and was grateful for the changes this government acted on after a decade of recommending these exact changes. We followed through on our campaign promises to veterans. We moved from 75% of their pre-release salary to where they are at 90%. This affects all members who are currently in the program. All members in the program will have more money in their pocket to help provide for their families, and we think this is a good thing.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Minister, sorry to interrupt you, but as I told you....

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

I'll remind you of what my mandate letter said. My mandate letter said to move from 75% to 90% of salary, and that is what we've done. At all levels throughout the military, people on ELB will do better on this program. This is a good day for veterans, and it will help them and their families going forward to give them the financial capacity to build their lives.

I'll also remind you—just pushing back a little bit—that we not only delivered a large amount of money, but we delivered it with care, compassion, and respect to those who are most disabled, most in need, and who most need those services. So whether we did it in ELB, expanding access to permanent impairment allowance, going to the disability award that veteran communities have been asking for for a decade, we have moved forward in—