Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 1st, 2018

[Dr. Deborah Norris]

Not I.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you.

To illustrate some of this dysfunction, in early January of this year, it was discovered that one of the policies within Veterans Affairs was to round down the number of years of veterans' service for one of the income supplements that medically injured veterans receive. One hundred and thirty-three of them have basically not received, on average, $600 per month for a period of, I believe, six years. Don't quote me on that, because I forget that statistic, but it was for a long period of time. The practice of rounding-down was part of the structure and policy of Veterans Affairs.

Can you share any views on the bureaucracy at Veterans Affairs and what it's level of efficiency is?

I'll start with you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

We don't have time. I'll give you 30 seconds for a short answer if you just want to make it quick.

[Hélène Le Scelleur]

I would just explain that I've changed case managers four times in two years, so this is one problem. I would say on the opposite side that my case manager recently contacted me to say, “Do you know you can have access to this and this and this?” That was the first time somebody had called me to say that I was entitled to that. Before it was different.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Fraser.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Thank you all so much for being here. I appreciate your comments and your assistance to the committee.

Dr. English, I will begin with you. I appreciated your sharing with us some of the history at the JPSU regarding staff shortages there and note that in 2013 it appeared that there was still an acute staff shortage. I noticed you mentioned that one of the questions we could perhaps look into is where we are at now. Do you have an update as to where the staff shortage issue at the JPSU is at as of now, and whether or not there's been any change in the priority of staffing?

[Dr. Allan English]

I'm not aware of the latest information. No, I can't. I listened to the previous session, and I heard some of the testimony. I don't think it's improved, because as far as I know, the staffing level is still at priority 6. As long as it's at a six, it's not going to improve.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

You talked about employment practices at the JPSU in general. Is there something more than the priority of category of staffing that could be done to improve employment practices at the JPSU?

[Dr. Allan English]

On the military side, it's the staffing priority level, because that's what the military assigns to it. We heard someone talk about a career manager. If I'm a career manager, I have to fill a priority 1, 2, and 3 position, and so on. I don't have a choice. I can't fill a priority 6 position before a priority 1 position. Somebody has to make a decision to change the priority level, but that means it is a zero-sum game, and this is what we often forget.

On the civilian side, it's about budgets. They get budgets, and I'm looking at you around the table, and bureaucrats often get a bad shake out of this, or they're easy to criticize. They work within a budget, within legislation, and within rules they often have no control over. We have to look at the bigger picture of how many resources a government is prepared to vote for veterans. It's easy to say they need more, but then you're going to go to Treasury Board and say, “Okay, give me the money.” Are you going to get it? I don't know. That's your business.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Thank you very much. No, I appreciate that.

Dr. Norris, I will turn to you for a moment. I appreciate very much what you said about involving family members in the transition of a Canadian Forces member becoming a veteran. I know that we had before our committee General Roméo Dallaire, who basically said exactly that, that it's critical to involve the family to have a successful transition.

You talk about the caregiver in particular. Are you aware of the new caregiver benefit the government has announced, the $1,000 tax free to a caregiver of a veteran, who is able to, hopefully, take some comfort in the fact that their service is being recognized. Do you think that's a good thing?

[Dr. Deborah Norris]

Absolutely, it is a good thing. Anything to alleviate the stress and the pressure, particularly in the more acute phases of the transition out of military service to the civilian life.... I was not aware of that, but that's good news.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

I would like to come back to you, Ms. Le Scelleur.

If you had to give our committee one specific recommendation to ease the transition for veterans, what would it be?

[Hélène Le Scelleur]

I would recommend that this committee consider having training for veterans before they go out into the civilian world. Training would include some of the social and financial aspects of it. They need something to get prepared to go back into the civilian world.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Thank you very much.

Thank you all.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Next up is Mr. Johns.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, all, for your testimony. It's really informative.

This question is for anybody. What role could community-based organizations and the private sector play in supporting transitioning veterans? In that regard, you talked about mentorship, Ms. Le Scelleur, which I really appreciate.

Should these services be offered by Veterans Affairs and DND? Are there issues with offloading this support?

Maybe I'll start with you, Ms. Le Scelleur, if you want to comment on it.

[Hélène Le Scelleur]

Thank you for your question.

I believe that the employment transition is fairly well established. The difficulty we have is people living with limitations. Going back to employment is often very difficult. If we want to have a disabled person re-enter the workforce, how are we going to be able to do that? I believe we need to look at that. We need some employers who are going to be flexible enough to give either the resources to employ the person or to give flexible hours or things like that.

I know there are actually a lot of military-friendly employers, for example, but who won't necessarily consider people living with limitations, mostly people living with psychological injuries.

This is one thing that we should look at, because, as of now, I don't think it's been addressed that much.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Great.

You talked a little bit about the mentorship side. Did you want to expand a little more on that?

[Hélène Le Scelleur]

There are a lot of organizations providing peer support. At some point as a peer, you don't necessarily have life experience or professional experience to open the horizons for the veterans still struggling in their houses. The mentoring part, which is really good, is to be there as a guide and to offer something different, to share new interests, to share based on new values. As of now, what we are providing in the system by way of peer support is not enough to help the person recover from their injuries. The mentoring part is where we can fit the importance of it in the community and ask for organizations within the community that are looking for the mentors. With the experience they can bring on board for the veteran, it will be more beneficial than just peer support.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Dr. Norris, you talked about the communities especially. Maybe you can elaborate a bit more on that.

[Dr. Deborah Norris]

As I noted in my testimony, the families that participate in our studies are very keen to have what we're interpreting as military-centric programming, particularly during the more acute phases, to have someone who understands the context and the realities they've been dealing with and will continue to deal with. That's why if they know about programs such as the OSISS program and the COPE program, which that retired Lieutenant Colonel Chris Linford initiated in British Columbia—a program for partners or spouses—and they seem appropriate, they yield positive benefits.

However, social and geographic isolation sometime hamper people's capacity to participate in these programs. In the work that we do, we make every effort to include individuals who live far away from urban centres. We go to rural and remote communities. If you're 50 miles away from the nearest OSISS group, that can be a problem. The geographic isolation is an obvious issue, but social isolation too. Dealing with a mental injury in particular, not just on the part of the veteran but his or her family, is a huge burden for many, particularly with the ongoing stigmatization around mental health. There's often a reluctance to step up to the door of a community agency, be it military or civilian, to seek help.

On the hopeful side, which is always where I like to land in my comments, I know that groups like the Vanier Institute of the Family are working very hard to increase military literacy so that in communities, those of us who are civilian learn to develop more compassion and empathy for our friends and neighbours who are dealing with these issues. I think that's a laudable effort that may help reduce some of the barriers I'm seeing at present.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mr. Eyolfson.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We've talked about access to services and I'll ask everyone to answer this. Would you say that the reopening of the Veterans Affairs service centres was a positive step in services for veterans?

Madam Le Scelleur.

[Hélène Le Scelleur]

Yes, I would say it is very beneficial.

[Dr. Deborah Norris]

Absolutely.